well, the truth is, playing hu you make most of your money playing "regs" - but that just means only "regular player". Most of them are quite well versed with huds, table selecting etc, but they are just delusionall enough to play above their skill level, even though they might be beating some lower/easier games. My main game being hu zoom (i know, ironic), i've played some obviously losing players, who play literally every day few hours a day, and are imo +ev in some of the softest lineups, at least pre-rake.

anyway, i got drunk last night and won 3k shoving blind @ 1/2, so **** this hu ****, live poker, here i come

I could name couple of hundred politicians in my country, solid number of my colleagues and countless government officials on invented positions that provide absolutely no value and still get paid.

+1

There is a game for everyone. Imo it was in Pokerstars' best interest to market the correct game category for each player type.

In another HU thread, someone posted a SS over a good sample size of a Whale's loss rate. Said Whale is a very splashy player and common sense would dictate that he would get thrashed way harder at HU than 6m, however the Data actually showed that his winrate was better at HU and far worse at 6max.

Why? Because playing loose is closer to correct in HU than 6max. Allocating splashy players to play HU with a KOTH system that promotes fighting for those tables and tighter recs playing 6max and or 9max would have been in Stars' best interest for maximizing value on these players.

Hey, I could have sworn I played PLHEHU against you the other day. It was a FR table with just you and me.

Beat me to it

Oh the best idea ever just hit me. Why not force EVERYONE to play HUNL zoom? That would be fun, right?

Logic is pretty airtight. If these mysterious HU recs existed we would see HU tables in casinos. Even 6max was a giant flop for Borgata that tried to offer it - fish did not want to play short. Period. Recs who actually played hu online existed just because there's been so many people playing so some of them actually did preferred but it's kind rare beast.

Si

No need to such algorithm. Just special tables that you could only play if you certain level. Like tables for platinum with 20% discount of rake, tables for SN with 80% discount. Easy to implement and gives low tier player incentive to grind more without spending any money. Stars?

I agree. Lots of gov't workers are worthless and provide no value.but they got the gov't to pay them to do nothing but spin around their chairs and watch youtube.if the gov't would pay us to play poker all day it would be a lot more profitable.

i could be the best bubble gum chewer in the world but it doesnt mean anything if nobody will pay me to do it,or lose money to me in a bubble gum chewing contest. being a great hu player means nothing in a vacuum (obviously it helps with other forms of poker) if nobody will play you or no casino/online site will spread the game.

If fish want HU so bad how come SNE players who clog the lobbies all day waiting to play have said they have 1-3k hands in a year HU vs fish?

Stars knows the exact amount of hands fish play hu, know their exact loss rates in those games, and know that for the most part the amount of hands is negligible, they would play other games if HU wasn't available and their awful play would generate a lot more rake at 6max than HU.

Regs for the most part aren't playing HU for fun or for the thrill of ****ing victory.While they might overestimate their edge (or not have one) they're playing HU as a business decision and there is nothing wrong with that.They aren't doing what's best for stars. And they should expect stars to operate by making business decisions in star's best interest as well.

I don't think you can generalize people's gambling habits. That's like saying everyone who goes to the casino prefers and plays the same games.

It's been Less than a week since Pokerstars removed headsup tables and already the pools look quite dire.

The reasons are simple.

Alot of recs don't seem to like the dynamics of zoom HU.

Regs have little incentive open sit the zoom tables as they can just join when they see someone they want to play.

There are 2 things (in my view) that need to be done simultaneously in order to sustain the games longterm.

1. Create a static number of tables on each limit that will have play on them for >50% of the time.

so for the recent games for nlhu it would look something like this

12 tables of 50nl
8 tables 100nl
5 tables 200nl
3 tables 400nl
2 tables 600nl
2 tables 1knl
1 table 2knl
1 table 5knl
1 table 10knl

These numbers could be tweaked depending on current trends.

This will create good reg v reg action Which is obviously good for stars and keeps the lobbies clean.

It is vitally important that the number of tables are squeezed to maximum to get as much reg v reg rake as possible to keep Hu as a viable gametype for pokersites. If there is action less than 50% of the time stars should remove tables to a minimum of 1.

2. If you don't want to fight for a table then you have to pay for it. Literally.

If you want to bumhunt or play a friend or whatever you should pay for the opportunity.

How this would work:
you create a table. (It would be called your name or something similar)
you are asked to pay a fee once open sitting of something like 1bb.
For every 30 mins of open sitting you are asked to make another 1bb payment to keep the table open.
If another player sits, the clock is paused till they leave.
once they leave the clock resumes.
If you leave, the table automatically closes.

This would regulate itself in the fact that if too many people create their own table not enough action would be given and they are therefore paying for nothing.

None of these suggestions are hard to implement and would benefit the poker community as a whole.

I agree the HU Zoom experience is miserable. I enjoy playing HU poker but zoom HU just feels mechanical, slow, and disorienting.

A refined version of KOTH would be a hell of a lot better than this new format

Have you ever played HU live? I've been solely HU cash player since forever and even I find playing it really boring in live environment because 50% of the time is spent shuffling & dealing cards.

When a rec builds a big stack ~400bb and doesn't want to sit at the table with whole stack and decides to quit the game how many minutes hours before they can come back with a 100bb stack?

I think this might be another reason recs prefer normal tables.

Another thing about deep play in plo is both players take the foot of the pedal and the game becomes really tight and boring for recs especially with this new format.

Another potentially huge problem I see to all HU regs, even top tier ones who get to keep tables all the time:

There is going to be only handful of guys now who can and bother to sit at tables often. Even worse, people (regs & recs alike) tend to play around same time of the day. So if a natural nolifer & top player 'cumicon' is sitting on all PLO HU stakes from $5/$10 to $50/$100 for 14 hours per day, recreational player who only plays during that timeframe will only have to start a pool vs him. Sure, some others may join, but unless it's really big fish on really big stakes, it's probably not going to be more than 2 other players, so the recreational player has to almost always play at least 33% of hands vs cumicon, and start 100% of tables vs him.

Sure, it might be great for cumicon at start, but what if the recreational loses 20 buy-ins, keeps coming back everyday and sees cumicon as his only option to play the PLO HU format he likes? You think having 20 tables with 1 empty person sitting is going to scare him more than seeing the same guy every day sitting? Sure there are some sick ****s (iBarca2010 @ Party) who loves to drop 50+ buy-ins to same reg, but I think most of them will either:

1) move to other games, which is awesome for PokerStars
2) quit playing, or play less, which sucks for everyone except recreational player's wallet

Nothing 'scares' fish they are all degens and will gamble away their money to whoevers sat. They don't care if a lobby's empty or full or if they are playing WCG or Supsti.

Not sure if trolling. If you're not, then mildly put, you are not very good at understanding recreationals.

Not true. Im scurred of some regs.

Jmackenzie, if you could please refrain from double posting and creating a new thread it would be of tremendous help because not only does it split the conversation between two threads, it also makes you come across as an OCD whiner.

Perhaps Stars should replace zoom with HU SNG with a user-defined amount of hands with winner take all and equity chop options. Not only would it help with getting grimmed, it would create some expectation for both players as to how long the match will last.

Fair point.

I would take it off but I can't edit it

do they use bricks for cards where you play?

B&M casinos generally dont want to spread HU games. It takes up a table and dealer and resources and comps for low rake. It will be done only at the highest stakes for VIP players.

In most circumstances, if the floor will put down the game at all, they will allow other players to sit if its requested.

I think in the early andy beal matches ted forest just sat in uninvited. loool.

I've heard people say stuff like this before, I just do not see how it applies though.

Imagine you saw a million different situations, every floor person will react differently to the problems. Thats what makes poker so great in my opinion, you never know whats going to happen. Even when you realize that the outcome is not what you want, you still cant help but think confused. Happens to me many times.