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Old 02-08-2016, 08:11 PM   #1
numbeo
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pokerstars removing regular hu tables

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You are receiving this message because you have played Heads-Up cash games on PokerStars within the last 3 months.

We are writing to inform you that as of Friday 12th February No Limit Hold'em, Fixed Limit Hold'em and Pot Limit Omaha Heads-Up regular tables will be removed and will be replaced with Zoom pools.

Heads-Up Zoom is already in place at most stakes and will be added at $50/$100. We will also be adding Zoom No Limit Hold'em Cap games at stakes up to $25/$50.

This change is part of our commitment to reducing predatory behaviour and improving the recreational player experience.

Don’t hesitate to contact us if you have any questions.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:13 PM   #2
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

only time i ever play HU is vs friends for fun. guess we cant do that anymore?
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:13 PM   #3
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

Ha.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:17 PM   #4
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

Nice heads up there (pun intended) Amaya, ****ing removing it on FRIDAY. Interested to know how much of their traffic/rake has been from HU CG in site lifetime.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:24 PM   #5
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

Excellent move. HU is a blight on the poker economy in its current form.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:30 PM   #6
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

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Excellent move. HU is a blight on the poker economy in its current form.
Knew it wouldn't take long
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:31 PM   #7
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

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Originally Posted by TheDefiniteArticle View Post
Excellent move. HU is a blight on the poker economy in its current form.
No, it's not!

There have been changes to a KOTH only system a couple of months ago, which got rid of a lot of bumhunter problems.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:32 PM   #8
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

FINALLY F.... Bump Hunters will be forced to play...
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:32 PM   #9
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

At one time I was thinking that zoom might make heads up more popular, at the time more or less heads up was already dead, and with the many late changes things have just got worse. How many hands one plays per player in bigger pools makes some difference but when not playing just one man heads up, it is a different game, but I suppose it is better than nothing.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:32 PM   #10
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

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Originally Posted by chasern1 View Post
No, it's not!

There have been changes to a KOTH only system a couple of months ago, which got rid of a lot of bumhunter problems.
yeah, except that the switch to koth were done so quickly and quietly that non of the "poker economy experts" in nvg has no idea it even happend
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:35 PM   #11
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

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Originally Posted by Deoxyribo View Post
only time i ever play HU is vs friends for fun. guess we cant do that anymore?
You could play casino for fun.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:36 PM   #12
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

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No, it's not!

There have been changes to a KOTH only system a couple of months ago, which got rid of a lot of bumhunter problems.
This doesn't affect the reasoning, which is that the reg:fish ratio for games to run consistently is still 1:1 - much lower than any other form of poker. Sure, sometimes you get regwars, but especially at higher stakes, what you'll get before long is lobby stratification.

Furthermore, I'm not sure that regwars are even important. What matters is how many regs a fish sustains when they play. In normal HU, it's one.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:37 PM   #13
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

This decision will basically put all MSNL players from 2/4-5/10 out of business, since the 500z+ pools are held by HS players.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:38 PM   #14
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

predatory behaviour
predatory behaviour
predatory behaviour
predatory behaviour
predatory behaviour
Are we allowed to pot bet all streets? Or that can be perceived as predatory behaviour and accounts can be banned?
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:40 PM   #15
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

Hopefully there is like a 16 entry cap per zoom pool or something like that. Would just be madness otherwise.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:40 PM   #16
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

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Originally Posted by Tutejszy View Post
yeah, except that the switch to koth were done so quickly and quietly that non of the "poker economy experts" in nvg has no idea it even happend
They also didn't try reducing the number of tables in KOTH lobbies. The result is that better players maintain tables and beat the fish even quicker than before. Extra rake generation was minimal anyway as regs quickly established their place in the pecking order and sat out people 'better' than them and took tables from people unwilling to play.

This is about stopping players winning at very high rates. Along with it HU essentially dies as a format. Hu zoom is not the same as regular hu. My biggest game last year was 200 hu zoom, so we'll see what happens, but I certainly don't imagine it will ever be great.

I'd bet my left bollock that hu rake is doubled within the next year.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:42 PM   #17
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

This change is part of our commitment to reducing predatory behaviour and improving the recreational player experience.

What about seat scripts lol? And they did change MS to koth not so long ago and clearly didnt give it enough time to see if the changes worked or not.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:42 PM   #18
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

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This doesn't affect the reasoning, which is that the reg:fish ratio for games to run consistently is still 1:1
its not - you'll usually play more hands battling for the table than playing with fish, making the ratio >1:2

that being sad, the koth clearly wasnt working out, the pecking order was established very quickly, and with no new tables it was impossible to battle on more than one table, which probably decreased the amount of hands played. And im not just saying that because i couldnt get one myself, it usually takes me 3-5 mins to get a table, just the mere observation of the lobby.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:44 PM   #19
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

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Originally Posted by chasern1 View Post
This decision will basically put all MSNL players from 2/4-5/10 out of business, since the 500z+ pools are held by HS players.
Correct. Adding 1.5/3 and 2/4 along with 2/5 may be interesting. Although how many 2/4-5/10 players do you know who play only on stars? It's more incentive for us to at least try to jump ship, but finding a non major site where huplo rake at the 200 and 400 level isn't already ****ing insane and has some action is not easy.

This is also a slap in the face to regs who have put effort into table defending and establishing lobby position over the last few months. But, hey, I'm actually somewhat impressed that we got a full 3 days notice.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:46 PM   #20
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

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Originally Posted by Tutejszy View Post
its not - you'll usually play more hands battling for the table than playing with fish, making the ratio >1:2

that being sad, the koth clearly wasnt working out, the pecking order was established very quickly, and with no new tables it was impossible to battle on more than one table, which probably decreased the amount of hands played. And im not just saying that because i couldnt get one myself, it usually takes me 3-5 mins to get a table, just the mere observation of the lobby.
The full tilt "Add a table" function would clearly have increased the hands overall played for the koth system, many times I settled a 2 table match because it was a hassle getting 3-4 tbls + ppl blocking the tbls.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:48 PM   #21
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

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Originally Posted by Spraggy View Post
Here come the happy clappy brigade of people who've never played higher than 5nl in their lives rejoicing that the evil heads up has been removed. I don't play heads up anymore but it doesn't stop me from absolutely detesting the fact you have such a strong opinion on something that won't affect your penny games in the slightest.
Your tears taste sweet.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:51 PM   #22
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

As a hs Hu player I think they should cap entries by person from 4 to 2.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:57 PM   #23
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

I've never played HU consistently so would a 2/4+ HUNL reg please inform: I'd imagine that far moreso than other forms of poker, HU requires an observation / adaptation to game flow, tendencies, & results from that session. Zoom will essentially destroy that, since you'll be seated with a different opponent each hand...is that enough of a disincentive in your opinion(s) to spell the end of HU cash on Stars as we know it? Or will it continue to run consistently, albeit in this new, altered form?
Cliff's: this seems - to someone who's never played much HU - like a really big deal...is it?
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Old 02-08-2016, 09:03 PM   #24
frabb
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

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Originally Posted by RRM View Post
As a hs Hu player I think they should cap entries by person from 4 to 2.
Good idea.
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Old 02-08-2016, 09:03 PM   #25
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Re: pokerstars removing regular hu tables

Yes, it's a big deal and your observation is correct. Currently the zoom pools are quite small, so we still get a lot of hands vs the same people, so you can obviously build player specific strategies and reads. For the reasons you stated it is a different game though.

It will continue to run, I can't really say how it will play out though.
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