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Old 02-15-2017, 12:39 AM   #26
Duncelanas
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

If the rake isn't super abysmal I could see this game having high edges and being pretty fun for at least a few months. Don't know why everyone is so doom-and-gloom about this. Can't any of you guys get excited for anything that's not just increasing rakeback for 18 tablers?
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Old 02-15-2017, 01:18 AM   #27
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

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Originally Posted by Duncelanas View Post
If the rake isn't super abysmal I could see this game having high edges and being pretty fun for at least a few months. Don't know why everyone is so doom-and-gloom about this. Can't any of you guys get excited for anything that's not just increasing rakeback for 18 tablers?
Every gimmick so far has ridiculous rake - Spins 8%, Beat The Clock 10%. Given the trend 15% honestly wouldn't be surprising.
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Old 02-15-2017, 02:02 AM   #28
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

sngos have always had 10p rake, 5p rake in cash is essentially 10p rake because it's taken from the whole pot, not just profit, whats your point?
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Old 02-15-2017, 02:35 AM   #29
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

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Originally Posted by melontown View Post
I was on the design and balance team of this game and helped develop this game for about 6 months, and in my opinion this game is awesome, and I'm not saying that just because I helped in the process (and FYI I'm not affiliated with stars in anyway anymore).

Our team wasn't lacking in experience either, I used to be a highstakes MTT reg(don't play for a living anymore really) and we had other experienced players on the team.

The game was genuinely very interesting, and created a ton of strategic depth. In fact we had to work hard to make sure it wasn't too complicated or unbalanced, and I think we ended up in a good spot.

Also just one more point, we started developing this in 2015 when I came on board and at this point no one had ever heard of HoldemX so this was definitely not any kind of ripoff. I've also played HoldemX and with all due respect I think this game is 10x times better.

Anyways, I really hope this game succeeds. I do also believe there's a market for it. I'm not sure how much I can really talk about it because the NDA but all I can say is that people should give it a shot before dismissing it.
Sounds like it was really fun to create, you should go on the 2+2 podcast and talk about it!
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Old 02-15-2017, 02:38 AM   #30
Duncelanas
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

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Originally Posted by The Imp View Post
Every gimmick so far has ridiculous rake - Spins 8%, Beat The Clock 10%. Given the trend 15% honestly wouldn't be surprising.
Spin rake scales down to 5% and winning solidly is possible at every stake. Given the state of spins, I don't think it's fair to say the rake is "ridiculous." BTC does seem overraked pretty absurdly, though.

The powerups in this mode could create a ton of edge, hard to say.
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Old 02-15-2017, 02:50 AM   #31
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

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Just read the article you posted. What a load of ****e. It's nothing to do with helping recreational players, it's about finding ways to take money from the players pockets to line their own.
You mean like a company that is in the business to make money?

Stars feels like they have to do all these things to survive, service their debt and stay afloat. Online pros can either whine about it or figure out if there's some way to beat the game. If not, move to another online offering that they can play profitably.
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Old 02-15-2017, 02:58 AM   #32
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Re: winamax expresso, FTP rush, ...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tutejszy View Post
inb4 Alex Dreyfus sues, this seems like a pretty straightforward ripoff of holdemx

also, from the intro in the blog "more level playing field" that they are aiming for in a non-rake-free envoirment = unbeatable games, in case anybody didn't get that
Passive aggressive legal strat or he likes it ? dunno


that game was announced last year (can't recall, but some Q-call with baazov. could also be late 2015 tbh [edit] was Nov 15 [/edit]). and Hands of Victory (poker with RPG elements and power ups) is now open beta, so long story short ... more than one person saw the massive esports trend and thought "hey let's try and make poker more appealing to the esports community". besides that, holdemx seems to be not going anywhere.

[edit]@rake ... i don't rule out there will be rm play (rake), but since they want to set a foot on the esports market, i wouldn't be surprised if this is free game, where you can speed up the process of level up, when you buy tokens or whatever (well, like most of the esports games)[/edit]

Last edited by NerdSuperfly; 02-15-2017 at 03:11 AM.
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Old 02-15-2017, 03:11 AM   #33
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

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Originally Posted by pechkin View Post
sngos have always had 10p rake, 5p rake in cash is essentially 10p rake because it's taken from the whole pot, not just profit, whats your point?
Hypers weren't 10% rake. No idea what you mean by "5p rake in cash is essentially 10p rake because it's taken from the whole pot".

My only point was that Stars are steadily increasing rake and decreasing skill edges, there's no reason to believe a new gimmick game wouldn't follow those trends.
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Old 02-15-2017, 03:43 AM   #34
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

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Originally Posted by ChicagoRy View Post
HoldemX seems a bit too complicated, but I think having power up abilities is a nice touch and is worth exploring.

I don't understand why everyone is talking about killing profit. Rake and skill are the two primary components to being able to make a living off of poker and adding wild card/power ups could have an impact in either direction, depending on the details.

I predict that there will be a huge lack of balance for awhile and the potential to increase edge if you use these power ups in the right situations, so long as the waiting time for decisions doesn't go up tremendously.

Odds are that any single new variant/promotion isn't very successful, but they should keep trying, it's how you innovate and discover new games that might be popular with new crowds and/or reinvigorate existing players.
I'd be willing to be more open-minded if they didn't essentially say that they want the game to be unbeatable in the blog post that was announcing it.
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Old 02-15-2017, 05:05 AM   #35
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

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Originally Posted by AltruisticRaven View Post
Personally, I'm excited for new games like this. I think there's a gap in the market for new real money competitive games, and that Pokerstars is in the right position to start capitalizing on this gap. Moving forward as traditional poker variants become more and more solved and infested with centaurs/bots, these games have the potential to revitalize the dream and attract more fish.
.
I can't imagine what you are defining as "the dream."

I liked HoldemX when I played it, if this is 10x better as one of the developer says, it should be fun.

Are these supposed to be games of skill??


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Originally Posted by huesos View Post
"More projects are in development with one common objective - to bring sustainable growth to PokerStars through exciting new products that people will discover and re-engage with. And this will mean that more people will continue to enjoy the great game of poker."

I think it's time PokerStars considered a name change!

In all seriousness, so sad to see it continue to go this way.

The objective seems to be redefine what the world knows as "poker" and make as much money as possible in the process. Probably GTO for Amaya, and it will attract people to "poker" that never would have played poker before or might start off playing this version of "Poker" and shift to traditional poker.

It is sad to see poker being turned into "poker" for people who have played poker for years indeed but I do think it could end up being a long-term positive if another POKER site establishes itself as the place to play poker as it has been known for the past 60 years.

Last edited by ChicagoJoey; 02-15-2017 at 05:21 AM.
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Old 02-15-2017, 06:24 AM   #36
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

I personally don't think I can be bothered to learn a new game (after learning chess and NLH, I wasn't attracted by Omaha, or Spins or Hearthstone), but I think there are a lot of (younger) people who will be interested in this. I also agree with what Ryan and Duncelanas said about finding and exploiting edges. It's gonna be really interesting to see how this format works once a real money version is available. (Play money beta-testing a 'fun' game is obviously very different to grinding for rent).
A lot of regs might hate the Candy Crush-ization of poker, but making the game fun and addictive to casual players is the only way for the industry to stay afloat. There are so many new technologies competing for our entertainment dollars that vanilla poker (which - other than searching for porn - was about the most exciting thing you could do online in 2004) is starting to look very dull in comparison. 'Poker Power Up' certainly seems to have a better chance of reigniting interest in poker than 'Duel' or 6-card holdem or 'Beat The Clock'.
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Old 02-15-2017, 06:39 AM   #37
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

Seems like there are two ways this could develop:

1. A new form of our beloved real money strategy game which revitalizes the 'fun' element, in which the best and hardest working people will thrive

2. A new form of fun provided to customers who are willing to pay for it, i.e. the same as accepting the negative EV of playing roulette because you enjoy it

No wonder the poker pro's are sceptical, they tend to be decent at logic


PS: To the few people itt saying stuff like 'no you'd rather want more rakeback yada yada', that bs is getting old; there is plenty of stuff that would be good for traditional poker that wouldn't involve incentivizing 18-tabling rakeback grinders. Also, no one is forcing recreational players to get involved with good players for stakes meaningful to them, so don't take the 'poker pro's are bloodsuckers' line every time, it's pretty tilting especially if you fail to recognize how Amaya is sucking you dry

edit: want to make clear that I would have absolutely nothing against this if it develops in the first way
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Old 02-15-2017, 06:54 AM   #38
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

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Originally Posted by LOLCh1pPorn View Post
Seems like there are two ways this could develop:

1. A new form of our beloved real money strategy game which revitalizes the 'fun' element, in which the best and hardest working people will thrive

2. A new form of fun provided to customers who are willing to pay for it, i.e. the same as accepting the negative EV of playing roulette because you enjoy it

No wonder the poker pro's are sceptical, they tend to be decent at logic


PS: To the few people itt saying stuff like 'no you'd rather want more rakeback yada yada', that bs is getting old; there is plenty of stuff that would be good for traditional poker that wouldn't involve incentivizing 18-tabling rakeback grinders. Also, no one is forcing recreational players to get involved with good players for stakes meaningful to them, so don't take the 'poker pro's are bloodsuckers' line every time, it's pretty tilting especially if you fail to recognize how Amaya is sucking you dry

edit: want to make clear that I would have absolutely nothing against this if it develops in the first way
Agree with the above. If the game is decently beatable then I'd have no issue. At the end of the day Amaya can do whatever they think will make themselves the most money. It's just sad that this seems to involve diverting new players to low skill candy crush nonsense where the only winner is Pokerstars.
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Old 02-15-2017, 09:10 AM   #39
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

It seems good since it requires more attention and im all for that, less and less mass multitabling botish players.
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Old 02-15-2017, 09:14 AM   #40
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

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Bring MSN poker and 6 card omaha.

Proven to be good
That 7-hand poker or whatever it was called with the coins? That game was the best.
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Old 02-15-2017, 09:50 AM   #41
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

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Originally Posted by The Imp View Post
My only point was that Stars are steadily increasing rake and decreasing skill edges, there's no reason to believe a new gimmick game wouldn't follow those trends.
this. guys this is f*****g amaya, its gonna be another money grab that is hidden behind "innovation" or whatever. this game could be fun, but its also going to be unbeatable or close to it (even if its beatable amaya will raise the variance somehow to make it less attractive for good players as they have done with spins).
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:02 PM   #42
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

This would be a good laugh at home with friends in a live game. Not online, it would tilt the **** out of me if someone just swapped the river card when I got there.
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:07 PM   #43
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

Avoid playing drawish hand vs a high "swap river" player #powerupstrat #avoidance
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:42 PM   #44
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

I'm not a pro. I'm a rec player who plays most weekends and some week nights after work. From my point of view, I think this "innovation" is complete and utter sh*te to be honest.

Pokerstars should be a site for traditional poker. If you want all this arcade type rubbish, have a separate app and wack it all in there.

Beat the clock and those rubbish 18 man hyper SKOs are bad enough. This is another step in the wrong direction. I know a few people who no longer play poker online because of other commitments. The blog mentions re-attracting these type of people to poker by creating this. I can tell you now, there is no chance this is re-attracting anyone who used to play poker, because this offering is not poker, you may aswell go to the pub and play on a fruit machine.

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Old 02-15-2017, 01:06 PM   #45
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

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Originally Posted by Tutejszy View Post
I'd be willing to be more open-minded if they didn't essentially say that they want the game to be unbeatable in the blog post that was announcing it.
Where does it say this?
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Old 02-15-2017, 01:15 PM   #46
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

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Originally Posted by ChicagoRy View Post
Where does it say this?

I think he means this: "..changes that all share the common goal of creating a more level playing field and a friendlier environment for new and inexperienced players."
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Old 02-15-2017, 01:34 PM   #47
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

That's a bit ambiguous. Most new games will have a learning curve for every player.

Spin and Gos were widely (and incorrectly) touted as unprofitable early on by many former winning players. Yet dozens of people made six figures profit yearly at them without big multipliers (and continue to do so).

Rake is a little higher than most players would like in Spins, but it's reasonable enough, and the same or lower than most other sites.

That's across the board though, gone are the days where you can automatically expect Stars to have significantly lower rake than the online casino companies that offer online poker. They used to use their size and poker-focus to offer more reasonable fees to poker players. But that clearly went away when they leveraged like hell to buy the company for big dollars.
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Old 02-15-2017, 02:23 PM   #48
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

so long as the rake is terrible (it probably will be) the game looks pretty fun and innovative.
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Old 02-15-2017, 03:39 PM   #49
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

What a joke! Amaya is run by morons. Combining poker with hearthstone and magic the gathering. Another Amaya cash grab by hiding what is the rake. Since the recent Pokerstars rake increase, I've dropped 2 star levels and attained higher Status on 3 other sites (888, PKR, and Party). Amaya is just pushing away mid to high volume players to other sites.

What other company on planet earth spends all their time trying to kill their best customers?

If I was an Amaya shareholder, I'd want upper management and the Board gone. Imagine if Toyota's management spent all their time trying to build cars that would make someone want to go buy a Honda?
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Old 02-15-2017, 03:48 PM   #50
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Re: Pokerstars Power Up

same as always. would be good if the rake was like Hyper MTT rake in 2014
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