As most of you are aware, the new Stars reward structure "Chests" has been running for quite some time now. You are also aware of the huge difference this made to rakeback for many.

Stars has come up with a new tactic in the last week.

For those that don't know, when you pay rake, you are awarded progress points which fill up your progress bars. You start at the bottom chest - which has the smallest rewards - then work your way up to the top chest where the rewards are bigger.

The idea is that when you hit four of the same colour chests in a row you move up. If you do it again, you move up again. If you hit a chest three times on three different days, you move down to a lower chest where the reward is easier to achieve. So the website tells us...but this is not the case anymore.

A few of us in the other threads were noticing some weird things going on. We were dropping chests yet for some, the points requirements when they dropped was actually higher than the points requirement for the higher chests!!!

Let's remind ourselves what Pokerstars website claims:

Smaller Chest

If the last three Chests of the same type were all earned on different calendar days* then the next Chest will be smaller with an easier reward point target.

So in the last 10 days, I had earned three bronze chests on three different days so I dropped down to a blue chest. To my surprise, the points requirement stayed the same. I emailed stars who responded with this in the email:

If the last three Chests of the same type were all earned on different calendar days then the next Chest will be smaller with an easier reward point target.

I complained again. I reminded them that the website clearly states chests , when downgraded, should be easier to obtain. Their response?

The number of reward points required to complete your progress bar can change at any time. The requirement is personalised to you, and it is affected by a number of factors including the games that you play, your results in those games, the Chest that you are progressing towards and your net deposits/withdrawals.

To add further confusion, my second blue chest was a lower points requirement than the first one.

So the question is, are Stars breaking any advertising rules here by offering a reward system to entice players with a set of rules that they do not actually adhere to? Or is their an error in the system that they are refusing to acknowledge as it means refunding a ton of points to players.

I get that they change points requirements for different people but this should be done when they move up. There is absolutely no way a chest should go from 4,500 then be downgraded to 4,500.

Now some of you will come on here and wonder why we are getting upset over a few $ but Stars has thousands of players. I doubt the incidents reported on 2+2 are isolated. By altering the points system, it will be saving them tens of thousands per day. Or should I say, taking tens of thousands out of the poker economy.

Fwiw the exact same thing happened to me for the first time two days ago. Had bronze chests for 4500, downgraded to blue chests and the first blue chest was also 4500 and then next one was the usual 1250.

The coffins system is crap. They lowered the rakeback massively when they introduced coffins but also made it much more opaque. Of course that means they can easily make the rewards even worse without players realising immediately.

As far as I can see the only time the rewards improve is if you play infrequently.

tldr; but I read the title and then the name of the OP and that was enough

If the rake is too high it's actually better. If the chest rewards is too low it's actually better.

same to me downgraded chest but points to collect stayed the same that happened just moments ago and same template answer from support

edit. and one more thing this happened to me 2nd time 1st was then they had football promo now with xmas calendar DD then u increase our rewards the more chest u open

Dylan, a Stars executive, has stated in the promos thread that it's a bug that's being fixed, with compensations to be given to affected players.

/thread

I only play very low volume, so it normally takes me at least 3 days/sessions to unlock a chest. Recently, my target for the next chest got doubled just in time for the advent calendar promo (which is apparently only accessible to "selected individuals") even though it took me 3 days to unlock the previous one. Now it's taking me a whole week to open one chest (and a door on the calendar promo). Lucky me.

While the problem OP detailed is apparently a bug, it's pretty clear (from talking to other players) that both the size of the coffins and the rewards contained within them depend on whether you are a depositor or a winning player. Basically, the more you win on the tables, the lower the rewards.

Well, winners don't need rakeback, and breakeven regs can become winners by reducing the table count and increasing the study/grind ratio - both measures will allow them to make better decisions at the tables.

I guess the biggest benefit of the new rewards program to Stars isn't the reduction of regs' profits but the increase in redeposits due to less boring games (particularly, due to the increase in regs' VPIP and speed).

Yep! I have not been playing much on pokerstars in the last few monthes but logged in to checkout the yearly advent reward since usually they have decent deposit bonuses / some ok rewards to make it worth playing depsite essentially no rakeback , only to see it not mentioned anywhere in my client / no unlock when i open chests. Hop on live support and after a 15 min wait of the chat rep asking her manager I was given the explanation that it's a offer for only select individuals

What kinda dumb thing is saying "winners don't need rakeback" lol

it goes directly out of 100% people's winrate doesn't matter if you're winning or losing. It's all about effective rake

sure buddy

I've been getting my arse handed to me the last couple of weeks at 10NL. And I'm still having to get 750 points to unlock a blue chest after moving down from a bronze which also required 750 points. My personal feel is that it has nothing directly to do with winning or losing - it just comes down to how much you deposit (which is obviously affected by how much you win or lose).

If you subscribe to Patrick Leonard's philosophy, why don't you just have fun playing at Party or WPN? (Or at those low-rake sites whose managers are more conscious of the ecology like the MPN, Unibet and soon RunItOnce?)

Edit - ah, I see that you do find it fun:

Well, that's surely a viable career choice too, gl!

Hi NoSurprises,

The issue you're describing is a technical issue that cropped up over the weekend that has been fixed as of today Was discussed here yesterday: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...postcount=3520

Players who moved up a Chest level got an easier point requirement so benefitted. For players who moved down a Chest level and received the harder point requirement for their first progress bar of the new level (it would be the same point requirement of the previous Chest level they were moved down from), unfortunately they will still need to complete their current progress bar. However, their next progress bar will have the correct requirements, and we will also be sending out compensation to these impacted players that will more than compensate for any value lost out on.

Please accept our apologies for the inconvenience caused.

Regards,
Dylan

Dude the chests are a joke. Everybody knows this. Get over it.

The last 3 chests that I opened had 7 stars coins in them. Imagine giving a grown man 7 cents and calling it a reward lol.

Quit giving these crooks your business

It's not just 7 cents, it's a whole bet on The Deal that can't be made with real money! And if you play The Deal once in 12 hours, you'll earn 'bout $3.50 in jackpot shares every 3-4 weeks! Kappa

That said, there are plenty of grown-ups who play $0.25 games, and 7 SCs are 28% of the BI to them. Poker isn't all about profit, it has a fun component too.

Nothing spells fun like opening chests with 7 star coins in them

The gambling industry is a numbers game. Sometimes it's more profitable to get an army of price-insensitive customers depositing a bit each but a lot in total, who're somehow motivated enough by 7 coins (and sometimes more), than to maintain a much smaller group of grumpy customers (mostly not depositing) who want hundreds of coins for the same volume.

I'm sure the decision to make chest value so small was backed by demographic data that Stars have but we don't.

Thanks Dylan. I feel a bit stupid jumping the gun but I did go back and forth with support who even told me they audited my chests and couldnt see any problems so I kind of vented on here.

F stars f coffins

Given Anaya's history of dishonesty and theft from players, everyone has a lifetime pass for jumping the gun.

Ironically, I was the one who introduced this forum to the term 'coffins'

This term for chests had been coined on May 25, 2017 (while they were tested in Denmark), by a Ukrainian Pokerstrategy user Sergey 'AdskiyGamerRNMD' (the nickname is translated into English as 'a helluva gamer'), who was a HU hyper reg at the time and is a Spin reg now, afaik.