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View Poll Results: Will you continue playing on Stars after the VIP changes?
I will likely quit poker as a profession soon after. 61 14.15%
I plan to move most/all of my action to another site. 257 59.63%
Keep grinding it. More rake is better anyway. 113 26.22%
Voters: 431. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-12-2016, 11:07 AM   #201
jokerspades
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

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Originally Posted by Avid Reader View Post

TL;DR: Regs/grinders are the MINORITY, recreational players are the MAJORITY
Yet they pay the highest price by far to play online poker at pokerstars.

Also i disagree most of the people u call recreational players are just that. See my last post in this thread; many so called recreational players would not bother to play poker over casino games if they knew it was'nt possible to be a winning player anymore.
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Old 09-12-2016, 11:54 AM   #202
MultiTabling
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

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Originally Posted by Petre_AA View Post
Pokerstars explainations are full of BS and you are full of BS also.

You know why ?

Because a $1.5 turbo SNG on Pokerstars has the rake of 18c.
$1.5 = $1.32 + $0.18 fee

You know how much 0.18 represent for a 1.32 buyin?

(0.18/1.32)*100 =13.636 % FEE

So how the F they help the ecosystem by having a bigger rake at the smallest stakes ? HOW ?

More to this : this SNG turbo of $1.5 is the default SNG displayed in the Quick Seat lobby.

So, F off mister Avid Reader.
He wasn't talking about rake. He was talking about the VIP system, which is what this thread is about.

It makes sense to cut the rewards of winning regulars, and instead distribute this extra money to depositing players in the form of bonuses and promotions. This is what virtually every gambling business does.

If you don't have these depositing players, games eventually dry up completely. Which is bad for both the business and winning regulars.
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Old 09-12-2016, 03:57 PM   #203
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

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Originally Posted by MultiTabling View Post
He wasn't talking about rake. He was talking about the VIP system, which is what this thread is about.

It makes sense to cut the rewards of winning regulars, and instead distribute this extra money to depositing players in the form of bonuses and promotions. This is what virtually every gambling business does.

If you don't have these depositing players, games eventually dry up completely. Which is bad for both the business and winning regulars.
The problem is that the redistribution never happens...

Slashing rakeback and giving back to fish is a great plan. Stars haven't followed through on the "giving back" part, ever. Why would it be different this time?
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Old 09-12-2016, 04:08 PM   #204
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

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Originally Posted by The Imp View Post
The problem is that the redistribution never happens...

Slashing rakeback and giving back to fish is a great plan. Stars haven't followed through on the "giving back" part, ever. Why would it be different this time?
it defenetly won't be any different! They are collecting as much money as they can before the industry totally collapses! As I see it! Maybe I am a little too pessimistic! And can't wait for the Phil Galfond site, i just can't see how it could be working in the current enviroment!
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Old 09-12-2016, 04:49 PM   #205
borg23
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

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Originally Posted by this not a party View Post
Any time I am in live game from now on I will talk about how Pokerstars has made the games unbeatable. especially there new sports betting and casino. also i will let players know there is a new site opening called Run it Once where it will be fair. This is how we can hurt Amya and move traffic in the right direction.
most people in poker rooms either already play on line and won't stop regardless of what you say or think the entire thing is ****ing rigged anyway. you may as well talk to a cat,it will have the same effect.
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Old 09-12-2016, 04:52 PM   #206
LektorAJ
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

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Originally Posted by The Imp View Post
The problem is that the redistribution never happens...

Slashing rakeback and giving back to fish is a great plan. Stars haven't followed through on the "giving back" part, ever. Why would it be different this time?
http://www.patrickmin.com/british_co...tes.php?ep=amy

Baldrick : My favourite's the Shadow. What a man! They say he's half way to being the new Robin Hood.
Blackadder : Why only half way?
Baldrick : Well he steals from the rich, but he hasn't gone round to giving it to the poor yet.
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Old 09-12-2016, 04:54 PM   #207
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

Times are certainly changing...

There are just so many examples of Pokerstars slashing different things and the returns to players becoming less and less with each passing day. Gone are the good Promo's, gone are the COOP bracelets, gone are the stellar rewards...I could keep naming them and form a decent sized list.
It's not like all these things are being replaced with something else of equal value or any value at all, they are simply being removed one by one and with the way things are going, there will soon be little to nothing left on offer for players at all, except for what we take off each other through the games we play...
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:01 PM   #208
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

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Originally Posted by Petre_AA View Post
Actually, I want him to answer my question.

So, Avid Reader,

How they help the ecosystem by having a bigger rake at the smallest stakes ?

I am an avid learner.
The short answer is it hasn't. This was a business decision Pokerstars decided to make, and is irrelevant to the discussion of the VIP program in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiTabling View Post
He wasn't talking about rake. He was talking about the VIP system, which is what this thread is about.

It makes sense to cut the rewards of winning regulars, and instead distribute this extra money to depositing players in the form of bonuses and promotions. This is what virtually every gambling business does.

If you don't have these depositing players, games eventually dry up completely. Which is bad for both the business and winning regulars.
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Imp View Post
The problem is that the redistribution never happens...

Slashing rakeback and giving back to fish is a great plan. Stars haven't followed through on the "giving back" part, ever. Why would it be different this time?
How would you know, are you a recreational player? Recreational players have earned a significant increase in bonuses and promotions that were "specially selected" for them, most notably the mega bonus. ALL my rec friends have received them, and they are far better value than the mega bonuses that everyone got at the start of the year. Minimum prize was typically $20, and they got 4 chances for a total of over $100 EV pp. Thousands and thousands of recreational players will have received these rewards, and that's just one example of how recreational players are benefiting from the changes in 2016.

Other changes, such as redistributing the $1M freerolls from supernovas to everyone is another change that favours recreational players. There also were some good value promotions towards the start of the year. The total value from completing all the February promotions was around $200 EV, thanks mostly to the lucrative milestone challenges. Players often received the equivalent of well over 100% rakeback from taking part in these challenges at the lowest stakes, and a few of my rec friends won $100 from a single challenge.
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:32 PM   #209
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

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Originally Posted by Sonicdahedgehog View Post
Times are certainly changing...

There are just so many examples of Pokerstars slashing different things and the returns to players becoming less and less with each passing day. Gone are the good Promo's, gone are the COOP bracelets, gone are the stellar rewards...I could keep naming them and form a decent sized list.
It's not like all these things are being replaced with something else of equal value or any value at all, they are simply being removed one by one and with the way things are going, there will soon be little to nothing left on offer for players at all, except for what we take off each other through the games we play...

One good thing about that though is a number of regs have quit and there is a (slightly) higher fish concentration than in 2015
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Old 09-12-2016, 07:56 PM   #210
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

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Originally Posted by hurtNCYDE View Post
One good thing about that though is a number of regs have quit and there is a (slightly) higher fish concentration than in 2015
Yeah, and about a quarter of teh cash games running compared to last year. Gonna be muchas funas if teh good ol NL hindo is teh highest stake regularly running in 2018
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Old 09-12-2016, 11:58 PM   #211
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

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Old 09-13-2016, 12:07 AM   #212
Kanabal18
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

There is only one option and that is to vote with your feet. They can do this as long as we continue to play. There are alternative sites out there and yes the software is terrible but this is the only way to see change.
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Old 09-13-2016, 12:16 AM   #213
AlaskanDogRunner
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

All these "rewards" are just a stupid gimmick. It's a scam, it's not needed. Just lower the rake and pass the savings on to the player.

Everyone reading this, check out swc poker. It's a rough draft right now but the rake is significantly lower, and you can play from any country in the world.
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Old 09-13-2016, 01:02 AM   #214
PumaPerez
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

are you aware that depositors getting deposit and reload bonuses this whole year? promotions is all you see, because you were not chosen for deposit bonuses, but its not the whole redistribution
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Old 09-13-2016, 05:02 AM   #215
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

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Originally Posted by TimStone View Post
Yeah, and about a quarter of teh cash games running compared to last year. Gonna be muchas funas if teh good ol NL hindo is teh highest stake regularly running in 2018
What is "teh"?
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Old 09-13-2016, 05:23 AM   #216
coach999
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

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Originally Posted by AlaskanDogRunner View Post
All these "rewards" are just a stupid gimmick. It's a scam, it's not needed. Just lower the rake and pass the savings on to the player.

Everyone reading this, check out swc poker. It's a rough draft right now but the rake is significantly lower, and you can play from any country in the world.
ya but stars is not lowering the rake while removing/lowering rewards. I'm sure swc software is just pure cancer...
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Old 09-13-2016, 06:39 AM   #217
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

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Originally Posted by Maximus122 View Post
I think everyone may be over reacting.

They haven't said for certain that Supernova rewards will be reduced. They said that they are subject to change, which they always were.

Secondly, its much better if you can get Supernova rewards now after a month of grinding as opposed to having to wait an entire year to get the 30% rewards.

I assume that you will have to get 9000 VPPs a month to get the Supernova rewards.

It's good news as long as the rewards aren't cut to ****
Lol
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Old 09-13-2016, 06:46 AM   #218
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

Im enjoying this demise, burn Stars burn
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Old 09-13-2016, 07:35 AM   #219
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

Its crazy how a Pokerstars managed to go from being one of the most loved brand in the world to generate so much hate. They clearly dropped the ball hard, again and again, to get from such an extreme to another.
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Old 09-13-2016, 07:58 AM   #220
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

I've paid almost $1,000 recreationally playing nl2-10zoom in a year. I know it's nothing compared to grinders but it's pretty sick

Last edited by Gallajio; 09-13-2016 at 07:58 AM. Reason: Edit
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Old 09-13-2016, 09:14 AM   #221
LektorAJ
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

If Dnegs really said **** the pros then it shows how amateurish they are. Bookies (i.e. sportsbetting) just ban winning players but they would never ever let their PR guys be filmed talking about it *. They just f-ing do it.

When a normal punter wins they pay out with a smile and tell him how clever and good he is at picking the horses, hoping they come back. The casino staff, even at the tiniest venues, always wish good luck to the degens. First rule of gambling marketing is to appear "pro winner" even if you're not.

If PS don't want to offer volume discounts on the rake then fine, stop doing it (afaik they still do this anyway), don't publicly say it's because you don't like winners though because that's really dumb. If it's isn't about winning then all the recreational players can go and have their "fun" on play money.


* Note that the cost of pro gamblers increases the necessary vig/overround for the amateurs so is analogous to poker.

Last edited by LektorAJ; 09-13-2016 at 09:17 AM. Reason: Post I was replying to seems to be deleted.
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:04 PM   #222
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

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Originally Posted by kelnel View Post
Its crazy how a Pokerstars managed to go from being one of the most loved brand in the world to generate so much hate. They clearly dropped the ball hard, again and again, to get from such an extreme to another.
I used to go out of my way to recommend PS to people not only for poker, but as example of how to do business right.

Now, I go out of my way to make sure everyone I speak with knows that the new AmayaStars steals money from players, holds them in open contempt, and ruined one of the best companies of all time.
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Old 09-13-2016, 03:40 PM   #223
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

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Originally Posted by TrustInBrass_KAOS View Post
I used to go out of my way to recommend PS to people not only for poker, but as example of how to do business right.

Now, I go out of my way to make sure everyone I speak with knows that the new AmayaStars steals money from players, holds them in open contempt, and ruined one of the best companies of all time.
Yes! +1
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Old 09-13-2016, 04:03 PM   #224
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

But Daniel said these great changes were scheduled for 2016? Although he had his mouth full so maybe he misspoke.
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Old 09-13-2016, 04:07 PM   #225
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Re: Pokerstars - Important changes to VIP reward for 2017

for anyone looking for leadership, transparency, honesty, or anything else they provided pre Amaya, staff seem to frequent this thread.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34.../index939.html
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