What's terrible for poker is high effective rakeback--for every player.

Pokerstars aren't ****ing Robin Hood. They're taking from the rich and giving to themselves. Idiots on forums keep cheerleading because lol rakeback grinders.

Rakeback grinders are players who win money from other players, but not from the ****ty internet casino. They just get some of their money back from the casino.

Poker players are poker players worst enemies, and poker sites will able to do whatever they want to us morons until the end of time.

"****ing rakeback grinders!" *shakes fist at cloud*

Just when I thought this thread couldn't get more ******ed some moron comes and posts this.

Hahaha no way you'd be that upset if rakeback was less then 20-30% of your profit. You should start learning poker or if variant you play is tough to beat with rake find one that is. Adapt! Prosper! Or die whining

The amount of delusion and self entitlement here is so unpleasant to read. Pokerstars just decided to cut down their loyalty programme, that's all.
You can still make loads of money beating people in poker. For example, two of my colleagues are having a best year on Stars in their career, because they vastly improved their game. I was just discussing how after chests come into action, they will probably offset the rakeback loss with much fishier fields, as "pros" that rely solely on rakeback will leave in droves. Expecting Stars to become softer, not by much, but softer.

Is there a definitive date this is being rolled out on .eu?

This is what I just got....

So "as early as July" is the best answer right now.... could be this Saturday, could be in 6 weeks time, or more....

best part of sn letter: "On behalf of the PokerStars VIP Club, I’d like to thank you for your loyalty. The staff that have been supporting the VIP Club will be transitioning to the Stars Rewards program, and we’re excited about the challenge of providing a great program. It is our sincere hope that you’ll continue to enjoy playing on PokerStars for years to come."

lol

+1

First of all, there is a tiny amount of regulars on midstakes whose rakeback profits are less than 20%-30% of their total profit. For example, if I am clearing about 2500$ per month playing ~60k hands on z200, that means if my rakeback is 30% of my profits I have to make 5000$/60k hands, that's more than 4bb/100, a number which very few regulars go above at those stakes. And if you force regulars whose bb/100 is less than 4 out, you will just leave fish against very few very capable regulars who will eventually scare all the fish away.

Second of all, let's say you were 4bb/100 at z200 and rakeback was just 30% of your profits. Well now that rakeback is going to be what, quartered and or even reduced to 15-20% of it used to be you are loosing 25% of your income. But wait, not only that, because you are left in a pool with no rakeback pros (who you were making money of) and fewer fishes and bunch of top regulars, your 4bb/100 is bound to go down.

So how the f..k is complaining about loosing possibly half of your income being a winning player is "self-entitlement"?

Also, lol @ "much fishier fields". No, moron, fields are not going to become fishier. You chased away all rakeback grinders and all fishy Friday night players will see are going to be smaller pools filled with top regulars waiting for any kind of fish swim their way.

Seriously, it feels like people in this thread who are complaining about "rakeback grinders" are either loosing players who couldn't even grind for rakeback or some delusional Americans who played online poker like 6 years ago and still feel like their opinion on the subject matters.

Maybe you could quit your backer again and go play golf

I could, except I am playing on my own dime (and winning) for 1,5 years now, so eat ****.

obv
Is it confirmed that there is a 85% reduction or not?

There is a post in a similiar thread by an Italian grinder:

It looks like this is the end. Going to grind for a month and see for myself tho. After that, will have to look for a new site.

Listen, I believe you are competent at poker, honestly.
But your whole post is one big load of self-entitlement! Why? Because your interest at some point coincided with interests of the game organizers (most poker rooms) who for years sheared flocks of sheep together with you.
THAT was poker 6 years ago! THIS is now: flocks are smaller, sheep are ever thinner, but surprisingly some of them even grown to resist wolves better than before, and wolves have spread over the years, sharpened their teeth, got bigger and harder to feed themselves. So shepherds are putting some nasty fences now, they want wolves gone.
Obviously your skill and your career choice don't give you satisfying margins of profit, without that privilege called rakeback.
But hey, let this moron give you a hint! Have you ever considered playing another poker variant which doesn't depend on rakeback so much, if at all? Two friends I mentioned play turbo HU SNG and guess what, they will live comfortably even after the chests arrive ( which I also think they are **** of course, but I don't try to run other peoples' companies, nor have a right to )
So have you? Judging by your whining stubborn reactions, you haven't. Introspect yourself and tell yourself why didn't you? Possibly lazy? Maybe it was just too easy and too good to try something new? Maybe you fear failure? Whatever your reasons, that lack of strategic thinking has gotten you into this unpleasant situation.

In my country, like probably in most of the world, taxi drivers fight UBER and their drivers as hard as they can. They lived a very nice existence ripping off western tourists for decades. We even call them "chess players" because they can be frequently seen playing chess on parking lots for hours bumhunting for those one or two clueless customers who will overpay them and earn them our average daily wage in 2 hours of work. And now UBER is shaping their existence, bringing them into the real world. They are so pissed they are literally physically attacking UBER drivers. We, the young and educated people are spreading the word about them to elders who still use taxi and we boycott taxi 100%.
But you know what's ****ing funny! They can attack UBER drivers, they can lobby our corrupt government and ban UBER, but in 2030 there won't be ANY taxi drivers because the cars will drive themselves. Good luck to their future.
Let me disillusion you: in 2025 pokerbots will be absolutely superior to humans, online poker won't be played for money just as chess isn't played for money online in 2017. Trust me, 2% rakeback times will sound sexy then! Just that it won't matter anymore.
Consider yourself really lucky you can do this wonderful job of being a poker pro in 2017 ( am not ironic ) man up and face the challenges like a grown up.

He is competent at walking out on his backer with 80k makeup that is for sure

So the shepherds' nasty fences won't be enough when the big monster comes?

Well I got this email:

Will I still be able to convert stars coins into cash rebates or will the vip store be affected as well?

Theyve said stars coin will remain currency for reward system, and that value will be unaffected. But dealing with them id just cash them as soon as you get them, to be safe.

Mad1lee gtfo you scumbag.

L.A.Ruseman rapes dogs

Cliffs on madlee?

So people are complaining about Stars when it is the best site to play on? Try being an American in California and having to play on Carbon Poker... Rakeback what is that? There is no rakeback on Carbon and their tournaments are inferior to Stars by a Million miles. Either move to another site or suck it up butter cups...

This is true but what you're saying is akin to someone saying they're hungry and another knob saying, "there are millions starving in Africa". It's true but it doesn't make a difference to the hungry person, or in this case, PokerStars players.

idk the details of this but it sure doesn't sound like he scammed anyone since you can't expect someone to stay staked forever, so please stop derailing the thread.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=3624

How do you even compare UBER and everything related to progress to a greedy corporation that is ruining poker ecosystem to cover its debts?

So professional winning players like me are those taxi drivers, according to your comparison?

Again, I am starting to be pretty sure that all posters that justify new changes are either loosing players or Americans, who haven't played online for ages.

You seriously think a recreational will join the pool if it has 90 entries instead of 60 entries? sick troll

I dont approve the changes, but your arguments are not correct.
For 500z it could have these effects, cause recreationals dont join a 10 player pool, but everything below wont be affected considering the fish playing.

What could make it tougher is that the breakeven regs will move down.
Every reg quitting will increase your winrate.

Wow what a scumbag. Go **** yourself madlee