Yet they pay the highest price by far to play online poker at pokerstars.

Also i disagree most of the people u call recreational players are just that. See my last post in this thread; many so called recreational players would not bother to play poker over casino games if they knew it was'nt possible to be a winning player anymore.

He wasn't talking about rake. He was talking about the VIP system, which is what this thread is about.

It makes sense to cut the rewards of winning regulars, and instead distribute this extra money to depositing players in the form of bonuses and promotions. This is what virtually every gambling business does.

If you don't have these depositing players, games eventually dry up completely. Which is bad for both the business and winning regulars.

The problem is that the redistribution never happens...

Slashing rakeback and giving back to fish is a great plan. Stars haven't followed through on the "giving back" part, ever. Why would it be different this time?

it defenetly won't be any different! They are collecting as much money as they can before the industry totally collapses! As I see it! Maybe I am a little too pessimistic! And can't wait for the Phil Galfond site, i just can't see how it could be working in the current enviroment!

most people in poker rooms either already play on line and won't stop regardless of what you say or think the entire thing is ****ing rigged anyway. you may as well talk to a cat,it will have the same effect.

http://www.patrickmin.com/british_co...tes.php?ep=amy

Baldrick : My favourite's the Shadow. What a man! They say he's half way to being the new Robin Hood.
Blackadder : Why only half way?
Baldrick : Well he steals from the rich, but he hasn't gone round to giving it to the poor yet.

Times are certainly changing...

There are just so many examples of Pokerstars slashing different things and the returns to players becoming less and less with each passing day. Gone are the good Promo's, gone are the COOP bracelets, gone are the stellar rewards...I could keep naming them and form a decent sized list.
It's not like all these things are being replaced with something else of equal value or any value at all, they are simply being removed one by one and with the way things are going, there will soon be little to nothing left on offer for players at all, except for what we take off each other through the games we play...

The short answer is it hasn't. This was a business decision Pokerstars decided to make, and is irrelevant to the discussion of the VIP program in this thread.

Exactly.

How would you know, are you a recreational player? Recreational players have earned a significant increase in bonuses and promotions that were "specially selected" for them, most notably the mega bonus. ALL my rec friends have received them, and they are far better value than the mega bonuses that everyone got at the start of the year. Minimum prize was typically $20, and they got 4 chances for a total of over $100 EV pp. Thousands and thousands of recreational players will have received these rewards, and that's just one example of how recreational players are benefiting from the changes in 2016.

Other changes, such as redistributing the $1M freerolls from supernovas to everyone is another change that favours recreational players. There also were some good value promotions towards the start of the year. The total value from completing all the February promotions was around $200 EV, thanks mostly to the lucrative milestone challenges. Players often received the equivalent of well over 100% rakeback from taking part in these challenges at the lowest stakes, and a few of my rec friends won $100 from a single challenge.

One good thing about that though is a number of regs have quit and there is a (slightly) higher fish concentration than in 2015

Yeah, and about a quarter of teh cash games running compared to last year. Gonna be muchas funas if teh good ol NL hindo is teh highest stake regularly running in 2018

There is only one option and that is to vote with your feet. They can do this as long as we continue to play. There are alternative sites out there and yes the software is terrible but this is the only way to see change.

All these "rewards" are just a stupid gimmick. It's a scam, it's not needed. Just lower the rake and pass the savings on to the player.

Everyone reading this, check out swc poker. It's a rough draft right now but the rake is significantly lower, and you can play from any country in the world.

are you aware that depositors getting deposit and reload bonuses this whole year? promotions is all you see, because you were not chosen for deposit bonuses, but its not the whole redistribution

What is "teh"?

ya but stars is not lowering the rake while removing/lowering rewards. I'm sure swc software is just pure cancer...

Lol

Im enjoying this demise, burn Stars burn

Its crazy how a Pokerstars managed to go from being one of the most loved brand in the world to generate so much hate. They clearly dropped the ball hard, again and again, to get from such an extreme to another.

I've paid almost $1,000 recreationally playing nl2-10zoom in a year. I know it's nothing compared to grinders but it's pretty sick

If Dnegs really said **** the pros then it shows how amateurish they are. Bookies (i.e. sportsbetting) just ban winning players but they would never ever let their PR guys be filmed talking about it *. They just f-ing do it.

When a normal punter wins they pay out with a smile and tell him how clever and good he is at picking the horses, hoping they come back. The casino staff, even at the tiniest venues, always wish good luck to the degens. First rule of gambling marketing is to appear "pro winner" even if you're not.

If PS don't want to offer volume discounts on the rake then fine, stop doing it (afaik they still do this anyway), don't publicly say it's because you don't like winners though because that's really dumb. If it's isn't about winning then all the recreational players can go and have their "fun" on play money.


* Note that the cost of pro gamblers increases the necessary vig/overround for the amateurs so is analogous to poker.

I used to go out of my way to recommend PS to people not only for poker, but as example of how to do business right.

Now, I go out of my way to make sure everyone I speak with knows that the new AmayaStars steals money from players, holds them in open contempt, and ruined one of the best companies of all time.

Yes! +1

But Daniel said these great changes were scheduled for 2016? Although he had his mouth full so maybe he misspoke.

for anyone looking for leadership, transparency, honesty, or anything else they provided pre Amaya, staff seem to frequent this thread.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34.../index939.html