thx for your support

So true

But what else can we do ¿

it's on it's on!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.clubpoker.net/forum-poker...-pokerstarsfr/

Big company like pokerstars may be able to access French government more easily than bunch of players sending formal letter to somewhere.

Cmon, I'm sitting out on a few tables already!

Ok so we are going to send a delegation of players to negociate in the next few weeks or months i don't know.
But the dialogue with the BOSS is open and pretty well engaged.

He said that he will do somthing for the MTT and SNG but it will be almost impossible to change the taxes for the cash games. So maybe we could find some other ideas. (form of rakeback,big cash bonus, we don't know now but we will try hard to find solutions.

you guys are great - keep on the strike!

I forgot the funny part.

Pokerstars director Isai Scheinberg http://www.gamblingsites.com/bio/isai-sheinberg/

Who talk with SKIP the representative of our mouvement told him that he wasn't happy because the manifestation was only on pokerstars!

Well ISAI don't be scared cause i think we will strike every french sites once at a time. ;-)

epic !

A Clubpoker.net member made a video (61 Mo, 7 min) here :

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ECNRK4QY

http://www.clubpoker.net/forum-poker.../page__st__850

Hey Dude. Yes, I like Stars and try to defend when I see the facts are mis-stated. It's not against the rules of this board.

As to my calculations way off and my assumptions are wrong, I did write them down for you in details. Why don't you point out what exactly is wrong or off base? I may be wrong, but I won't just accept your word on it.

And I didn't say the rake is not ridiculous. It is. I said Stars is not making money off this rake, the government is.

Not against the rules of course, but you are suspiciously biased. You defend every unpopular move made by the Stars.

What about I play a couple thousand hands and show you the results and you will see on ACTUAL results that your calculations are wrong.

I already posted in this thread that with this new rake structure, I pay about 3-4 times more in rake than before. No VPP/FPP/rakeback can compensate me.

Government preflop tax is 2%. Pokerstars charges up to 2.4% by approximation.

Government postflop tax is 2%. Pokerstars original rake was 5%. If they simply addes the tax, it should have been 7% total. However, Pokerstars charges 7.7% postflop, plus higher cap than the tax cap+original rake cap.

How does that compute for you?

If you say they give money back in bonuses/rewards, and you argue that they give back 30% (even assuming this is right), then I'd rather receive back 30% of the 7% rake than 30% of the 7.7% rake.

NICE ! The extra rake is killing Poker, and this is great. I didn't know about this one but I'll participate for the next one. Hope something changes, but since you spoke to the Pokerstars boss, things are looking OK

French ppl, unite against agressor that is high rake!! Banish it from your lands now and forever!

I don't think my calculations are wrong. They show that you are getting 55% return while you are clearing the bonus. These calculations do not depend how much rake you pay.

I didn't say VPP/FPP/rakeback can compensate you. You wrote in the original post that the maximum rakeback during clearing the bonus is 30% and I calculated it to be 55%. Even 45% of a very high rake is very bad. We both agree on that.

What limits do you play and how is your rake split between preflop and postflop? If you pay, as you say, 3.5 times more in rake now than before, then the rake you pay preflop should be about 60% of the total rake. Sounds very high. Is that so?

To my knowledge Stars charges 2%, not 2.4%. Can you post hands with 2.4%?

Stars adds extra on postflop because it gives you 30% on the tax portion. So for post flop hands it's about even and for no flop hands Stars loses.

You are right, of course. My only point that Stars doesn't make any extra money because it charges 7.7%.

In summary again, I agree that the rake is outrageous, but it's not true that Stars used the tax to make more money. It makes less money not more. Can we agree on that?

anyone know how much is the taxes on rake for sng/mtt ?


for esemple

100€ BY = 91+9

how much is the taxes?

3%(?) 3% about 100e? (3euro) or 3% about 9€ ?

Taxes are 2% on 100€ = 2€

It's 2.5% preflop capped at 1.25 euro now and 7.67% postflop with the following cap :
0,01/0,02 € et 0,02/0,05 €
# players / cap
2 1,50 €
3-9 2,00 €

0,05/0,10 € et au-delà
# players / cap
2 1,50 €
3-4 2,50 €
5-9 3,50 €

This has been confirmed by a Stars rep on the French boards.

This is indeed a higher rake than .com rake + tax but I do agree with you that as they are awarding VPP on the tax portion they're probably not benefiting from it. However they did a terrible communication error by not separating both components of the rake and award VPP only on the pure rake part imo.

according to the official web site the rake preflop is 2%, not 2.5% and maximum 1.00 euro.

http://www.pokerstars.fr/salle-de-poker/prelevement/

It has not been updated yet probably.

Source : http://www.clubpoker.net/forum-poker...st__p__2001841

This was posted by Skip on the Club Poker forum:

http://www.clubpoker.net/forum-poker...-pokerstarsfr/

Cliff notes:

he talked to Isai Scheinberg for 15 minutes over the phone, who seemed a little panicked over the idea of this sudden strike.
Scheinberg complained that PS was the only room targetted while others were getting a free pass. Skip (Club Poker admin) told him that other rooms will indeed be boycotted in the near future. He also told Scheinberg that PS had a major role to play as the leader of the poker market and if they make a move in the right direction that will force the other rooms to align themselves.

Scheinberg replied that Stars already made a move by reducing the rake on MTTs, Skip thanked him for that but reminded him that the main problem was cash game, wich will soon be dead if the rake doesn't evolve.

Scheinberg then told Skip he didn't know what he could do about it and complained about the insanely high taxes, pretending the taxes already made Stars lose some money and that now they are losing their players/customers.

Skip then asked him about Stars lowering their rake anyway so the increase would not be only passed onto the players (until the law eventually evolves), and Sheinberg's reply was basically "that would equal the .fr site closing down". He again repeated that Stars was already losing money and promised to make public detailed numbers on this particular point.

Finally Scheinberg accused Skip and the rest of the strikers to act towards Stars instead of the governement, Skip replied that since we do not have direct access to the regulation authority, he was counting on Stars as the leader of the market to lobby directly to the govt for a change of law.

Skip also added that a delegation of french players will try and meet someone at the govt/regulation authority to explain the situation.

Sheinberg then made a few promises:

- provide Skip local contacts so a manager at stars.fr can follow up
- make public a detailed and accurate economic report on the .fr financial situation so he can prove .fr is already losing money
- try and convince the regulation authority with our help to reduce the insane tax

edit: Skip added that Scheinberg was definitely surprised and a bit shocked by the number of players sitting out.

looks like the rep is wrong. Here is a hand history:

PokerStars Game #46355960422: Hold'em No Limit (€2/€4 EUR) - 2010/07/05 2:11:15 CET [2010/07/04 20:11:15 ET]
Table 'Phthia V' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: cnolimit13 (€175.49 in chips)
Seat 2: AriGold8313 (€410.31 in chips)
Seat 3: kidpoker hed (€388.22 in chips)
Seat 4: hachoir 69 (€143.32 in chips)
Seat 5: yanir26 (€159.64 in chips)
yanir26: posts small blind €2
cnolimit13: posts big blind €4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
AriGold8313: folds
kidpoker hed: raises €8 to €12
hachoir 69: folds
yanir26: folds
cnolimit13: raises €8 to €20
kidpoker hed: raises €368.22 to €388.22 and is all-in
cnolimit13: folds
Uncalled bet (€368.22) returned to kidpoker hed
kidpoker hed collected €41.16 from pot
kidpoker hed: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot €42 | Rake €0.84

and one more with maximum:

PokerStars Game #46356113634: Hold'em No Limit (€5/€10 EUR) - 2010/07/05 2:15:35 CET [2010/07/04 20:15:35 ET]
Table 'Triberga IV' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 2: nonosam23 (€376.30 in chips)
Seat 4: Alexonmoon (€13111.51 in chips)
Seat 5: Mpiyavv (€2657.80 in chips)
Seat 6: meyh (€3292.13 in chips)
nonosam23: posts small blind €5
Alexonmoon: posts big blind €10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Mpiyavv: folds
meyh: raises €30 to €40
wuznext leaves the table
nonosam23: raises €336.30 to €376.30 and is all-in
Alexonmoon: folds
meyh: folds
Uncalled bet (€336.30) returned to nonosam23
nonosam23 collected €89 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot €90 | Rake €1
Seat 2: nonosam23 (small blind) collected (€89)
Seat 4: Alexonmoon (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Mpiyavv folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: meyh (button) folded before Flop

Not to mention everything is rounded up

About ten days ago, I read an article in which a gaming executive was quoted saying Germany, Spain and Denmark were considering passing a comparable law.

id definitely to this. lol but i withdrew all my money because of this rapage