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Old 06-30-2010, 08:48 AM   #1
Tib
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Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

With a rake of 7% up to 3€ and a preflop rake of 2%... So pokerstars took 0% of the governement taxes in charge and made any cash game form unprofitable. Just for information on pokerstars.com rake is 5% up to 2€ without preflop rake.

GG Cashgame

PokerStars Game #46167091537: Hold'em No Limit (€0.05/€0.10 EUR) - 2010/06/30 14:24:34 CET [2010/06/30 8:24:34 ET]
Table 'Pirola' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: enzo093 (€7.71 in chips)
Seat 2: Admin17100 (€8.44 in chips)
Seat 3: flavinio563 (€2.95 in chips)
Seat 4: Milouser (€2.48 in chips)
Seat 5: Gui03200 (€10.91 in chips)
Seat 6: jiph (€15.73 in chips)
enzo093: posts small blind €0.05
Admin17100: posts big blind €0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
flavinio563: raises €0.40 to €0.50
Milouser: folds
Gui03200: folds
jiph: folds
enzo093: folds
Admin17100: folds
Uncalled bet (€0.40) returned to flavinio563
flavinio563 collected €0.24 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot €0.25 | Rake €0.01
Seat 1: enzo093 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Admin17100 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: flavinio563 collected (€0.24)
Seat 4: Milouser folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Gui03200 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: jiph (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

PokerStars Game #46166991641: Hold'em No Limit (€0.05/€0.10 EUR) - 2010/06/30 14:20:39 CET [2010/06/30 8:20:39 ET]
Table 'Pirola' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: enzo093 (€6.66 in chips)
Seat 2: Admin17100 (€7.75 in chips)
Seat 3: flavinio563 (€5 in chips)
Seat 4: Milouser (€2.63 in chips)
Seat 5: Gui03200 (€11.87 in chips)
Seat 6: jiph (€14.92 in chips)
Admin17100: posts small blind €0.05
flavinio563: posts big blind €0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Milouser: folds
Gui03200: folds
jiph: folds
enzo093: folds
Admin17100: calls €0.05
flavinio563: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qd Tc Ts]
Admin17100: checks
flavinio563: bets €0.20
Admin17100: calls €0.20
*** TURN *** [Qd Tc Ts] [4h]
Admin17100: checks
flavinio563: checks
*** RIVER *** [Qd Tc Ts 4h] [8h]
Admin17100: bets €0.20
flavinio563: calls €0.20
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Admin17100: shows [6h Th] (three of a kind, Tens)
flavinio563: mucks hand
Admin17100 collected €0.93 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot €1 | Rake €0.07
Board [Qd Tc Ts 4h 8h]
Seat 1: enzo093 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Admin17100 (small blind) showed [6h Th] and won (€0.93) with three of a kind, Tens
Seat 3: flavinio563 (big blind) mucked
Seat 4: Milouser folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Gui03200 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: jiph folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Last edited by Tib; 06-30-2010 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 06-30-2010, 08:53 AM   #2
Maddes
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables

epic fail from pokerstars.
absolutely
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Old 06-30-2010, 09:01 AM   #3
hbcc
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables

pokerstars is getting really greedy lately, problably want to gather as much $ as possible before online gambling gets banned everywhere
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Old 06-30-2010, 09:06 AM   #4
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

they've always been greedy. stars is run by a family in europe. ftp is run by poker players. ftp doesnt **** people over as much as stars
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Old 06-30-2010, 09:07 AM   #5
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinner View Post
they've always been greedy. stars is run by a family in europe. ftp is run by poker players. ftp doesnt **** people over as much as stars
I disagree. Pokerstars has better support, much lower rake and reward system.
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Old 06-30-2010, 09:10 AM   #6
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

Is that 7% rake on all stakes or just micros?
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Old 06-30-2010, 09:12 AM   #7
OMGYouGotOwned
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

While I do think that rake in online poker is high this time you are targeting the wrong institutuion. If it wasn't for the french government to make the changes it made you would have still payed normal rake. Also aren't you french guys protesting about everything, there weren't any protest about the new online gaming regulations(or where there?) so obv you want to be screwed over,or am I missing something?
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Old 06-30-2010, 09:16 AM   #8
two2brains
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

wtffffff


they charge rake with no flop??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????



FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!
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Old 06-30-2010, 09:19 AM   #9
madlex
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

Quote:
Originally Posted by two2brains View Post
they charge rake with no flop??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????
"they" is the french government. Stars didn't change the rake, they just added what france is demanding.
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Old 06-30-2010, 09:26 AM   #10
NoxKo
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

Simple. Don't play.

Vote with your damn feet.
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Old 06-30-2010, 09:34 AM   #11
soapdodger
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

yeah its the legislation not PS. still think pokerstars.fr will host the most profitable games around though. thinking about moving there but keeping british bank account. no tax-maximum fish, simples.
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Old 06-30-2010, 09:41 AM   #12
Tib
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

they could at least take half of the governement taxes with their " huge profit margins " (quoted from pokerstars)
anyway in a few months CG will dies because poker isn't like loto player can stand playing in -EV game if the perspective of a huge reward exists but they won't be playing in a game that slowly grind their bankroll
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Old 06-30-2010, 09:45 AM   #13
d0nk3y
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

YOU'RE PLAYING AGAINST FRENCH ONLY.

I'd pay 25% rake to have that privilege.
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:00 AM   #14
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

rake preflop is absurd, specially for micro grinders putting some big volume
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:07 AM   #15
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

Quote:
Originally Posted by soapdodger View Post
yeah its the legislation not PS. still think pokerstars.fr will host the most profitable games around though. thinking about moving there but keeping british bank account. no tax-maximum fish, simples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d0nk3y View Post
YOU'RE PLAYING AGAINST FRENCH ONLY.

I'd pay 25% rake to have that privilege.
You guys grossely overestimate the skill difference between french players and others...

Look at the stats: french are not losing significantly faster/more than players from others countries...

http://www.pokertableratings.com/top-countries

Country and Winrate/100 hands
Norway $-11.80
Denmark $-11.63
Sweden $-8.20
Australia $-9.77
Netherlands $-8.00
United Kingdom $-7.37
France $-9.97
Germany $-3.95
Canada $-9.12
United States Of America $-7.44

=> Not very likely to have winrate improve, and WAY higher taxes = not much money left to be won...
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:36 AM   #16
MasterLJ
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

Is the preflop rake uncapped?

That seems like it'll make almost everything up to MSNL unprofitable.
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:41 AM   #17
Tib
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

preflop probably capped to 1€
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:50 AM   #18
anakedcowboy
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokouz View Post
You guys grossely overestimate the skill difference between french players and others...

Look at the stats: french are not losing significantly faster/more than players from others countries...

http://www.pokertableratings.com/top-countries

Country and Winrate/100 hands
Norway $-11.80
Denmark $-11.63
Sweden $-8.20
Australia $-9.77
Netherlands $-8.00
United Kingdom $-7.37
France $-9.97
Germany $-3.95
Canada $-9.12
United States Of America $-7.44

=> Not very likely to have winrate improve, and WAY higher taxes = not much money left to be won...

You can quote PTR all you want, but take out micros and i'd happily bet the MEDIAN $/BB tells a different story. I know as a heads up player if a french player sits with me as i'm closing out tables to go to sleep, I will stay up indefinitely to play them. They. Are. Horrible.
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:54 AM   #19
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

wow think of all the FPPs nom nom nom
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:58 AM   #20
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

http://www.pokerstars.fr/tournois/calendrier/

Best tournaments schedule ever..

Quote:
23:00 200 € Hold'em NL 6 max HIGH ROLLER


It's impossible to deposit more than €470/day and €1750/month and to play more than 10k euros a month. (there is no way to make supernova playing SNGs)

Last one is my biggest concern.




By the way the PTR top-countries thing is only for FullTilt and Party poker.

Last edited by DamienT; 06-30-2010 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:20 AM   #21
pokouz
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

Quote:
Originally Posted by anakedcowboy View Post
You can quote PTR all you want, but take out micros and i'd happily bet the MEDIAN $/BB tells a different story. I know as a heads up player if a french player sits with me as i'm closing out tables to go to sleep, I will stay up indefinitely to play them. They. Are. Horrible.
No offense but I would rather trust statistics on a 400 million hands sample than your impressions...

And I dont understand why you would think that french players are more likely to play micros than another population (make no sense to me).

As additional information: preflop rake effect vary a lot depending on the format, according to simulation in HU midstakes CG it would be something like a 400% increase of the rake.

As a consequence it seems that no .fr poker site will offer HU tables...
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:29 AM   #22
tultfill
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

Do like the french farmers and dump cowdung infront of the government institutions. Tons of cowdung.

It's fkn insane how these incompetent ******* politicians ran by old money is so fkn all the time in the way of the internet revolution. Post the names so we can piss on their family graves.
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:34 AM   #23
pokouz
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

Lets wait for an US regulation of online poker, it will obviously be tax free... erm wait ?
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:40 AM   #24
AphexDeuce
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

Quote:
Originally Posted by tultfill View Post
Do like the french farmers and dump cowdung infront of the government institutions. Tons of cowdung.

It's fkn insane how these incompetent ******* politicians ran by old money is so fkn all the time in the way of the internet revolution. Post the names so we can piss on their family graves.
I like this fckn post +1
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:42 AM   #25
Mordan
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Re: Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokouz View Post
Lets wait for an US regulation of online poker, it will obviously be tax free... erm wait ?
Well the US market is different in a major way than the French market. Our market is so huge that Pokerstars will likely pay for the deposit tax's that our government will require. France on the other hand has maybe 1/10 the market size we do....just totally different ballgame.
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