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Old 10-01-2014, 11:24 AM   #251
nrocme
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

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Originally Posted by Land O Lakes View Post
UIGEA was never listed by the DoJ as the reason for Stars and FTP's bank account seizures, fines and charges because it didn't apply.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_..._v._Scheinberg
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Old 10-01-2014, 11:33 AM   #252
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

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Originally Posted by PeteBlow View Post
This has nothing to do with UIGEA.

It has everything to do with a company that is looking to 'go legit' and therefore fully adopting anti money laundering measures and severing financial relationships with countries that are subject to international financial sanctions.
Fine, I'll stand down on the UIGEA thing.
At least you put go legit in quotes. I'm guessing you mean it as a euphemism for the death of online poker as you know it. Now that Stars is a public company, the shareholders insatiable need for increasing profits will not stop until the game is destroyed (50% rake, sin tax, etc..).
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Old 10-01-2014, 11:48 AM   #253
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

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Originally Posted by anuj22 View Post
Pokertube saw this coming

Sept 4, 2014: PokerStars to Pull Out of Grey Markets?

http://www.pokertube.com/poker-news/...f-grey-markets
Good find.
Sept 4, 2014 The reality is that if Poker Stars have to cut off some of the ‘lower value’ countries in order to stay in good grace of share holders and be present on the bigger, more significant markets, they will do it – no questions asked. -Ivan Potocki
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:10 PM   #254
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

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Originally Posted by anuj22 View Post
I’d say that there are geographies that we look at in terms of India as well as some other Latin American countries where we feel there’s going to be significant growth.”

So do we Indians have anything to worry about since we also have a grey market when it comes to online poker but as CEO of amaya is looking at India as a potential to expand the business here I don't see any reason for pokerstars to stop providing services to India so am I right to conclude this?
Anuj,

Way off topic but November is pretty key regarding things in India.. https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=126
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:21 PM   #255
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

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Originally Posted by nrocme View Post
Stars can only answer.
AYA.TO
Trailing P/E : 110
Forward P/E: 17

I want to buy, but still looks to drop a bit more.
The only reason it could be a buy is if they get into the US market. And only then will it be good because of the news. There isn't any real profit to be made in the US, not now and not for awhile.

Personally I'm getting ready to short Amaya. They keep making ridiculous decisions and messing with everything. Pretty clear they are intent on running PokerStars into the ground. And when that happens, the whole company goes down because they are in such extreme debt.
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:38 PM   #256
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

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Originally Posted by PhapLap View Post
Hello Ozgur,

... please note that the restriction applies to the following countries:

Malaysia, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Egypt, Qatar, Jordan, Kuwait, Senegal, Nigeria, Tanzania, United Republic of Bahrain, Afghanistan, Occupied Palestinian Territory, Kenya, Mozambique, Rwanda, Holy See (Vatican City)

The following countries are also blocked and no play money games are available:

Iran, Iraq, Syria, Zimbabwe, Libya, Sudan, North Korea, Cuba, Myanmar, Yemen.
chatter on the deep web indicated both the move and the timing were terror / money-laundering related but i didn't believe it until i read this.

illpapa420ftw, b-ware.

out.
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:44 PM   #257
zifirr
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

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Originally Posted by SleightOfJam View Post
grunching thread.

for those from countries that have been shut out, are you able to convert your fpps to cash?
Yes. They have credited milestones and fpps about an hour ago.
I made a ukash cashout and waitin for the voucher code
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:45 PM   #258
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

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Originally Posted by VP$IP View Post
Good find.
Sept 4, 2014 The reality is that if Poker Stars have to cut off some of the ‘lower value’ countries in order to stay in good grace of share holders and be present on the bigger, more significant markets, they will do it – no questions asked. -Ivan Potocki
Yeah, I wrote that one, but was still kind of hoping we would somehow avoid this. Balkan countries are probably not safe either.
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:50 PM   #259
goergin
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

Quote:
Originally Posted by SleightOfJam View Post
grunching thread.

for those from countries that have been shut out, are you able to convert your fpps to cash?
I got 30k fps stuck on stars and according to their faq page regarding prohibited jurisdictions they won't be available to my use unless i move to a country where you can play real money on stars.

Quote:
Q.What will happen to my FPPs?
A.

You will be able to use your FPPs in the PokerStars VIP Store to purchase VIP Reward Bonuses. These VIP Reward Bonuses, once purchased, result in cash being instantly deposited into your account. These funds will be immediately available for cashout.

VIP Reward Bonuses are, as before, available for purchase based on the VIP level of each player. Players with VIP levels other than BronzeStar will have until their status expires to purchase VIP Reward Bonuses that require their higher VIP level.

You can also use your FPPs to purchase any VIP Stellar Rewards and/or Milestone Cash Credits that you may have earned in 2013 or 2014 but are yet to claim. The funds from any purchased VIP Stellar Rewards and Milestone Cash Credits will also be immediately available for cashout.

Any FPPs remaining after you purchase bonuses and rewards will be made available to you again if you are able to play for real money on PokerStars at some point in the future.
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:53 PM   #260
wal_mbn
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

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Originally Posted by SleightOfJam View Post
grunching thread.

for those from countries that have been shut out, are you able to convert your fpps to cash?
Yep, i used all my vpp for cash bonuses last night.

Also tonight at midnight EST we will get the cash % of where we are for our VIP stellar award as well. Say you're 10% to a $50 bonus, you'll get 5$ credited to your account.

EDIT: nvm, already got the stellar bonus.
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:57 PM   #261
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

it is indeed ruin the brand and reputation of PS used to have.
so disappointed with recent decision made by Amiya.
sigh
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:15 PM   #262
PeteBlow
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

I think you'll find that it's enhancing their reputation and that of online poker in general.
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:24 PM   #263
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

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Originally Posted by anuj22 View Post
So do we Indians have anything to worry about since we also have a grey market when it comes to online poker but as CEO of amaya is looking at India as a potential to expand the business here I don't see any reason for pokerstars to stop providing services to India so am I right to conclude this?
IMHO not that reasuring, it could mean that is where he is hoping for regulatory progress, it also sounds quite good (big) and is hard to discount as the legal situation is so mixed up being state based.

Its also an outside chance that a skill case in India could skate the law but I doubt that is actualy going to happen.
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:29 PM   #264
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

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Originally Posted by MrRipleyWhat View Post
chatter on the deep web indicated both the move and the timing were terror / money-laundering related but i didn't believe it until i read this.

illpapa420ftw, b-ware.

out.
A rumor on the web. Wow, and I thought facts on the web were solid
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:35 PM   #265
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

Pokerstars buying ftp shouldn't have happened imo, now these players from restricted countries have not much option left. If you get banned from pokerstars you get banned from full tilt as well which was then the 2nd largest poker site
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:36 PM   #266
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopPair2Pair View Post
Anuj,

Way off topic but November is pretty key regarding things in India.. https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=126

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richas View Post
IMHO not that reasuring, it could mean that is where he is hoping for regulatory progress, it also sounds quite good (big) and is hard to discount as the legal situation is so mixed up being state based.

Its also an outside chance that a skill case in India could skate the law but I doubt that is actualy going to happen.

Thanks for the response

Last edited by anuj22; 10-01-2014 at 01:54 PM. Reason: merge
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:39 PM   #267
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

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Originally Posted by PeteBlow View Post
I think you'll find that it's enhancing their reputation and that of online poker in general.
Stop being so glib.

There are ways to do these things right.

Just shutting down shop with no warning is definitely not doing it right.

Imagine if they did this in the UK. Players would rightly apoplectic.
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:39 PM   #268
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

Cant wait to see the grey list. Stars is now similar to party, the same countries can be banned, not sure about india as party is from india, but i wouldnt move there nor at any party banning countries at this time.

Poland was likely on black list already, romania wasnt but i dont remember it banned in party thats a legal point as games can be offered but its still illegal to play till site has romanian license, but to be fair, romania should be banned. Albania is legal for now, and blocking many sites internet pages isnt enough reason to ban albania. Hungary is probably grey and should be banned. I could similarly think some others, but the party list should cover some more, though i dont know if they ban all these stars countries.

Pokerstars is a uk company now primarily, .eu having no extra liberties? Because of uk mostly, then some for the usa, some for offering gambling games, and some for expanding w other games or even products to many countries banned now.

Bulgaria has stars, uk vip rake type, probably tax free winnings but not 100% sure, but cant play at non licensed sites and most sites ban bulgaria, and it might be illegal to play at them, so not all good, and all depends on how stars is, so not my number one poker country pick atthis time, but as they blocked burma, the opening of markets there and in asia, has got a kick in head just when things were improving there, and africa as a country is all out also, and brazil action has been improving, but stars has been kissing to that direction as they kick better, but need to wait now, south sea brazil is cheap and great for portugal players w 30% gross rake, if so soo, while tourists are said to be robed in brazil. Then there is europe, in my interest eastern europe from black sea to mediterranean, that they might all fu actually as legislation, regulation, and how action picks up and even what putin and other near countries are going to do when it comes to gambling and even wars.
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:49 PM   #269
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

It looks like Amaya has answered this question

Should Companies Obey the Law If Breaking It Is More Profitable?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dana-r...b_1650037.html
It isn't uncommon for business decision makers to encounter opportunities to earn hefty profits from illegal behavior where either the likelihood of prosecution is small or the expected penalties are less than the probable gains.
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:54 PM   #270
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

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Originally Posted by The Camel View Post
Stop being so glib.

There are ways to do these things right.

Just shutting down shop with no warning is definitely not doing it right.

Imagine if they did this in the UK. Players would rightly apoplectic.
If the shutout is due to money laundering and international sanctions, then they are most definitely doing it right.

You need to look at the bigger picture.
International money transfers are restricted between banks in these countries and other countries.
Online poker has long allowed them a way to circumvent these restrictions.
Whether or not online poker has been used for these kind of transactions is not the point. The simple fact that it could be is the point.
You don't go giving notice when closing these avenues.

Players having to withdraw funds and relocate is so minor an issue, it's not worth moaning about.
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:55 PM   #271
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

Another thing that isn't mentioned is why none of these Stars regs even considers 888poker, ipoker, or party poker? Have those sites also banned these countries? Because if not then it isn't like you're options for playing poker are nill. Those sites offer MUCH MORE traffic and stakes than anything U.S. players have available to them.
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Old 10-01-2014, 01:56 PM   #272
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKarne View Post
Cant wait to see the grey list. Stars is now similar to party, the same countries can be banned, not sure about india as party is from india, but i wouldnt move there nor at any party banning countries at this time.

Poland was likely on black list already, romania wasnt but i dont remember it banned in party thats a legal point as games can be offered but its still illegal to play till site has romanian license, but to be fair, romania should be banned. Albania is legal for now, and blocking many sites internet pages isnt enough reason to ban albania. Hungary is probably grey and should be banned. I could similarly think some others, but the party list should cover some more, though i dont know if they ban all these stars countries.

Pokerstars is a uk company now primarily, .eu having no extra liberties? Because of uk mostly, then some for the usa, some for offering gambling games, and some for expanding w other games or even products to many countries banned now.

Bulgaria has stars, uk vip rake type, probably tax free winnings but not 100% sure, but cant play at non licensed sites and most sites ban bulgaria, and it might be illegal to play at them, so not all good, and all depends on how stars is, so not my number one poker country pick atthis time, but as they blocked burma, the opening of markets there and in asia, has got a kick in head just when things were improving there, and africa as a country is all out also, and brazil action has been improving, but stars has been kissing to that direction as they kick better, but need to wait now, south sea brazil is cheap and great for portugal players w 30% gross rake, if so soo, while tourists are said to be robed in brazil. Then there is europe, in my interest eastern europe from black sea to mediterranean, that they might all fu actually as legislation, regulation, and how action picks up and even what putin and other near countries are going to do when it comes to gambling and even wars.
=))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) LAWL
Romania and Poland banned? )) We are the most geostrategycal NATO countrys in UE against the Russian Federation threat and you'r telling me that we should be banned? Amaya should buy a license in Romania is only 200k euros a year and all things gonna be fine.
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Old 10-01-2014, 02:00 PM   #273
nrocme
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

I heard stars just registered PokerNeutronStars.com/net.
This is plan C, all players must pile on ferries like Cuban refugees to the Isle of Man to play though.
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Old 10-01-2014, 02:00 PM   #274
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

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If the shutout is due to money laundering and international sanctions
Can't be, because Kenya isn't subject to them and is banned. While i.e. Indonesia is on many of them, but not banned.
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Old 10-01-2014, 02:04 PM   #275
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Re: POKERSTARS DOES NOT OFFER REAL MONEY GAMES IN YOUR AREA

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Originally Posted by GuySmiley View Post
Can't be, because Kenya isn't subject to them and is banned. While i.e. Indonesia is on many of them, but not banned.
Maybe I should've added, amongst other things.

Edit.

Also, the list of countries that are completely blocked - i.e. those countries that can't even access play money, is the same as the list of countries on the UK financial sanctions list.

Coincidence?
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