But I use those sites because I play on PokerStars, it wasn't like I found sharkscope first and went 'OOMG POKERZ' and signed up.

I don't know anyone that found an affiliate first, only used them to get certain bonuses as rakeback on ftp.

Rake was so high to pay these affiliates..

I remember if you even visited a website that had a banner, or clicked the link, you were permanently tied to that account.

It's sickening that these affiliates make more money off poker than 95% of players do.

Wish I had built some cheapo affiliate website years ago so I could be rich by now.

I really can't believe so many people are defending pokerstars here. How short sighted can you be? You're basically telling them it's ok to rob people. Might be you next time.

That is beside the point. The point is that those sites wouldn't be around if there were no affiliate programs. Ergo some affiliates provide a valuable service to pokerplayers. Besides bringing more fish to the tables.

The recurring problem with Amaya is the constant lack of notice to their players/partners, and the disregard they show for their reputation.

Sadly, this is the norm these days. The fanboys come out in force, whether it's something like the Jeans/Barcelona debacle, or the situation happening now with countries being blocked without any kind of notice, or explanation. Transparency from this company is just a distant memory.

Can i see a contract that has been terminated now by PokerStars?

Cause if i cant this discussion ( if its legal, if its fair, if its bad ) is pointless.

It's linked to in this thread and others, it's also on their website, just because you can't be bothered to click a couple of times to find out the facts doesn't mean it's pointless. Some people.

Just cause you can read doesn't mean you understand...

It has been said in this thread that contracts that has been signed and now being terminated are different from the ones that are currently available.

If they are not, and it looks like this:



Then its all legal and it's called business

Here is a link to their "contract," which includes what is referred to by industry professionals as "predatory clauses." See section 8.4.

Pokerstars Partners Affiliate Agreement

What had happened to my company personally is that we had been assisting in the recruitment of players since 2004. We were the affiliate that pushed for Mac compatible poker software and we actively participated behind the scenes in not only BETA testing of the software for PokerStars and Full Tilt, but ALPHA testing as well. The image I attached in an earlier post was simply a one page sample of a 4-page affiliate report. This is only a fraction of the number of players we had sent over the years. You can imagine how many players we had recruited since 2004 that had been actively playing still, and how many we lost when both companies left the USA.

Contrary to the opinions that are going to stew about in this thread, being an affiliate is hard work. It is literally just like running any other online business in that you are competing for SEO positions, studying analytics, managing a team of webmasters, graphic designers, writers, financial, legal, marketing, project management, advertising, etc. When I began this business I was working no less than 10 hours per day 7 days per week.

The situation here has little to do with affiliates not sending players (we are still very capable of sending players), but more of a broken promise that if affiliates sent players to Pokerstars or Full Tilt, they were supposed to be "for life," and clauses such as section 8.4 of their agreement are meant for one purpose and one purpose only - to cheat hard working affiliates out of their money by stealing their players out from underneath them. What Amaya did here is weigh out how much they were paying for the players that we sent vs. how much benefit the current level of players we were sending were providing them (in this down market for poker: http://www.google.com/trends/explore...20poker&cmpt=q).

You can see an actual termination letter here:

Amaya Gaming Gives Middle Finger to Former Super Affiliates

...and just because its in a private "Agreement" doesn't make it legal. Don't forget that as well.

I don't think you're quite as naive as you're trying to make out. The "predatory" clauses exist so that if your assistance as an affiliate begins to cost more than the value you bring to the table then it gives them a way to legally end the agreement. I suppose your affiliate company never let any staff go once they/their role became redundant and you never used any beneficial clauses in any of the contracts you had.

It is obvious you and your company worked hard and did very well from this business for 10 years. Sadly the poker affiliate business is no longer as profitable as it once was, nor as valuable to the sites. I would hope your company used its 10 years of experience and profitability to diversify and expand so that when the 'gravy train' ended (as you knew it would) you wouldn't be left in a tough spot. The gravy train coming to an end has negatively affected almost-everyone in the poker industry (especially the players) - what makes you think the affiliates ought to be immune?

So affiliates agreed to an illegal agreement?

You enter a contract you agree with all of the points in that contract. If not - dont sign it.

If you entered a contract with these terms I don't know what you're complaining about. I don't see anything unethical, immoral, or even unfair about Stars terminating a contract in a method that should definitely have been in the mind of both parties as to how the contract would be terminated, especially assuming it doesn't fall foul of unfair contract terms legislation (and I can't see why it would).

Edit: Nothing about this term is in any way 'predatory' and it's ridiculous to assert it is. That you 'do not recall being made aware' of this term is only relevant insofar as you can provide evidence that it was either a) not there or b) you were deceived about the content of the contract

What are you saying? Those pros are doing nothing wrong nor against the TOA.

there are no rules that if you own a house in the US you can't play on stars, or that if you stay in the US or have a place to stay in the US you can't play on stars. The rule is simply that you cannot play on pokerstars while physically inside the united states. Citizenship is irrelevant when playing on stars; you are not usually bound by your country's laws once you leave.

So it is certainly ok to play on stars outside of the USA if you are a US resident you just need to relocate outside the border and confirm that with Stars. You don't have to renounce your American citizenship

I don't think it means that. The relevant section says this:

5.11
Persons located in or residents of the United States and the United States Territories (the “Prohibited Jurisdictions”) are not permitted to make deposits into their accounts or engage in real-money play. They may cash out their existing account balances. For the avoidance of doubt, the foregoing restrictions on engaging in real-money play from Prohibited Jurisdictions applies equally to residents and citizens of other nations while located in a Prohibited Jurisdiction.

<snip>

Any attempt to circumvent the restrictions on play by any persons located in a Prohibited Jurisdiction or Restricted Jurisdiction , is a breach of this Agreement. An attempt at circumvention includes, but is not limited to, manipulating the information used by PokerStars to identify your location and providing PokerStars with false or misleading information regarding your location or place of residence.

----------

While that termination was abrupt and dirty what this poster says is absolutely true.

MBN to have been an affiliate. I would love to get a percentage of a player's rake for life. All the benefits of being the pokersite itself without any of their costs. Was a sweet deal.

an affiliate could have made 100s of thousands off one high volume player who would have been playing on Stars anyways. You can't say that the value to stars of you providing the sign up links were worth all those 100s of K. At least for other Poker sites affiliates provide rakeback to the player; for stars affiliates honestly don't do **** other than a little advertising.

ITT a bunch of people talk about how affiliates "do nothing" and got paid a lot, and yet none of them have become affiliates, even with their authoritative assertment that it's such easy money. In other words, most of you shouldn't even be commenting on a topic in which you have zero insight or clue whatsoever. See: tenderloinig, TheDefiniteArticle, MadeInPolanD, et al.

Your credibility and authority on this subject is akin to my authority on talking about your family members, ie., none, because I know nothing of your family, much like you know nothing about this industry. Please do everyone a favor and stop spouting your uninformed drivel backed by nothing except clouted, and incorrect, opinion.

^^ That is exactly correct.

Contracts are irrelevant in the gambling affiliate business. Every deal is solely based on trust. That is it. I have never really fully read an affiliate agreement in over 10 years. Its a waste of time. They all insert the same clause that says "we can do whatever we want, whenever we want".

Are you really going to sue a gambling site that is operating illegally and has billions of dollars and an endless lawyer team anyway?

Most smart affiliate programs know not to do **** like this because it kills off their affiliate program - which is free money to them. Bwin/party is prime example, they could be so much bigger.

Like always, we will move on and one companies loss is anothers gain. Pokerstarspartners.com is now dead from an affiliate standpoint. I feel sorry for those they are holding hostage and sorry for pro players who will see tougher games.

Thank you to those who actually took the time to understand. I'm done trying to debate with others that know nothing of the this business, not standard real life corporate business.

Then don't sign it.


Shame your knowledge of this business surpasses your knowledge of what a contract is and entails.

oh god.

What a convincing retort.

Shouldn't you be busy moving onto the next poker site to be an affiliate like you said? Then you can go and sign another contract which you don't really agree with and post here again about how mad you are that the terms of the contract were upheld.

I've said nothing about the amount of work that affiliates do because it's an irrelevant factor IMO. What I've commented on is largely a matter of contract law, and as a law student, I like to think I have some clue what I'm talking about (I'm certainly supposed to!).

Edit: And if the affiliate business works on vague notions of 'trust' rather than law then that's a major flaw with the business and good on Stars for taking steps to sort this out.

Classic lawyer

I think the guy who was talking about trust isn't really saying "we don't need a legally sound contract because we have trust." It seems to be more of a case of "no matter how sound a contract I sign with PS, if they violate it, I don't have any legal recourse because a)PS exists in an unregulated market where few governing bodies have real authority over them and b) obv any affiliate's legal resources will pale in comparison to PS." Which is saying that in this case, contrary to the lawyer mentality, trust is actually more valuable than a legally sound contract

You're right, I shouldn't put images on the internet if I want people to see them? I should clearly make them for people to see, then protect them so nobody can see them. Again, thanks for the free advertising!