Probably more ingenious than the defence of Phil's childish behaviour and endorsement of UB (which you don't consider bad) by his fans.

I was sent this stream last week and assumed I was about to see another incident of boorish behavior by PH. I am not a PH lover, think he deserves to be castigated, and also feel his game has dropped in terms of style and strategy. And I know and have played with every player at the table except for the amatuer (Wiggins) and Tony G. I also know that Daniel has a grudge of some sort with PH. He has posted it, talked about it in interviews, and even on "Poker After Dark" he did it with PH at the table. His right and I even agree on most of his points. I was a big Daniel fan and have always put him in the ranks of the top ten tourney players. But what went on at this particular hand is boorish behavior at its' worst. Lets take every point people have made. But first lets begin with the old axiom that "don't sink to someone elses level". First, the so called "slow roll". It took PH exactly 2.07 seconds to turn over his hand. If you call that a slow roll than you have never been SR. Second, though Phil had a set he was playing a neo-phyte and the texture of the board was such that he could have easily been beat. Anyone here who says they have never taken a bad beat with a set is liar or have played less than a hundred hands in their lifetime. But the egregious behavior that started after the showdown was nauseating. And it was led by DN. Enforced by (I happen to like Phil Laak and think he is funny and generally nice) PL, who was like the kid in the crowd of bullies who yells "hit him" but makes sure they are out of harms way. When PH had won the hand he gracsiously agreed to run it FOUR times. And Wiggins said yes. How many people here would agree to run it 4 times? Your odds of winning drop if you lose the first run. But PH was nice enough to give the guy a chance. As PH lost the 3rd and 4th run DN and PL began high fiving each other like a bunch of HS buffoons. They weren't even in the hand. Maybe in a cheap home game or low stakes it might happen but if you aren't in ahand, while it is happening you should just zip-it. Anyone here that says they would take that kind of behavior with a smile on their face is...well wrong. Then when Tony G chimes in with "KJ" is a better hand than A9 he is either stupid or drunk. And TG is one of the biggest boors in poker. If you think PH is bad google TG. He berates players, has been hit at least twice by players who were just fed up with his antics. And I have seen him many times play crap hands, suck-out and then berate the other player so he is just a DB withpokerskills, investment money, and the personality of slug. And the last thing that bothered me was Doyle never said a word and just sat there laughing. I do not know if he was laughing at them or with them but, as an icon, and maybe the most recognizable name in poker, he should have said "enough is enough". They got their licks in and it was time to act like grown-ups, not boors. It would have stopped right there. They all respect Doyle and it would have stopped. I will continue to be a PH critisizer but DN has lost all my respect and he and PL owe PH an apology. TG wouldn't apologize to his dying mother. And, barring a boorish act on PHs part I hope he wins a bracelet this year. Because that kind of behavior is a black-eye on poker. I know the haters will never change their minds but if you believe in integrity and class then there is no room for that kind of antic at a poker table. And if you think I am alone just look for video streams of commentators, who do not like PH, and they all agree with me.

No, you're right genocides are always a good argument when it comes to a poker player. Forgetting to talk about UB is certainly worst than bringing the genocide card.

I wasn't aware that there was a genocide card. If Phil gets dealt the genocide card, does he berate the dealer?

No, what Tony G said was "KJ is a better hand than A9". Look at the stream.

erm...what?

PH had trips.

shameless brag

pokerpolice: Gobboboy

what does "Loose Cannon" mean?

thanks

"You wanna run it 4 times, it would be better for you?"
"I really thought you had Tens Full there"

-Funniest quotes from the entire vid

Firstly, could you please seperate your posts with paragraphs? blocks of texts are hard to read.

PH obviously didnt want to run it multiple times to help the amateur, he did it because he is a risk averse and paranoid player who would do anything to reduce his variance. On all other cash games, he buys insurance, losing himself money in the long term, just to avoid downswings.

Also, no clue what your trying to say by your odds go down if you lose one... They can only go up. If Wiggins WINS a run, his odds will go down, but since he had 15% to win and won 1/4 pot (25%), he is already running above expectation, so it's quite irrelevant.

I LOLed.

now i cant wait to see this show .thx for the clip

Look if don't know how the show is run then u aren't going to get it. Wiggins had ZERO chance of losing his own money. He was staked by PS and he had to win over the stake money to win any cash. If he won 95,000 at end of event he won nothing and lost nothing where as PH was using his OWN cash so if it was just about winning Wiggins cash why would he agree to run it 4 times? All the money was in the pot so there wasn't anymore money for PH. Given that variance, odds, and sheer luck were completely on Wiggins side. But u do not seem to get the post. It is about behavior. Clear and simple. You can have a pissing match about odds but when you can't possibly lose any of your own cash odds are a moot point. Be a hater if you want but respect and decorum are much more important. And make sure you read the post again and u will see how I feel about PH.

You are an idiot if you think running it more than once benefits either the hand that is ahead or the hand that is behind.

First I don't write for your eye, nor do I care about how you feel about editing. After writing for more mags and papers than you have fingers and toes I let sub-editors or assistants do that. I am too lazy to please you. And once again if Wiggins is not playing with his own cash odds are useless. But if you think what went on is good for poker you are dead wrong. There are at least as many, if not more , people who agree with me.

"this is even worse than KJ" Tony G-

haha, so funny. it was so funny the last card also, knowing its a jack or king. soooo good. made my night


still, i feel for PH here in some way. and daniel is out of line for sure. Id walk straight up to the kid if were hellmuth and just stand inches away from his face(looking way down obv) and just have some mad serial killer look on my face lol.

Thepurpose of the show, over and above promoting Poker Stars, is to bring in novice players to give them a chance to play against professionals. Obviously the novices have the chance to play for, and win, more money than they have ever played for before. The show is about the "loose cannon", and in celebrating as they do, DN and PL are merely playing to the guest player. I might also point out PH, the douchebag, is haughty and downright unfriendly up until this hand. Payback is a bitch. Right Phil?

It boils down to this simple question.
Do you want to go home yet or keep playing?

that wiggins guy is soooo annoying and lol @ negreanu always trying to get into pots with him

Ok so you make a post explaining your opinion on the subject but dont give a **** about anyone who reads it? Alright, lol. you dont have to be a dip**** about it.

1- If wiggins runs it once, he goes bust 85% of the time. Yes, it's not money, but he also loses the chance to make any. If he wins just 1/4 of the pot, he still has half a buy-in and could easily double up and make money afterwords. If there's only like 5 hands left then it would be stupid for him to run it many times, but if it just began, he still have plenty of time to make it back. It's pretty useless to argue on which is actually more +EV though, mostly since that has nothing to do with why Phil hellmuth did it.

2-what are you talking about?

It's not about PH being a douche in this one, it's about 15+ years of being one, treating every loss like his opponent is a idiot, and verbally abusing and embarrassing them on TV. Repping a scummy site and pretending like everything is roses, clownshoe acts like arriving in a chariot, crashing the race car etc...Phil comes across as an insecure egomaniac, to see him get some of his own medicine from his peers is satisfying, maybe he understands a little better what it's like to be humiliated.

It's completely understandable why Laak and DN think it's a slowroll, you have a megafish pot committing himself on board where you have him crushed 99% of the time, there is nothing to think about, his little "this is so sick" line I think is what irritated them, not to mention taking around 35 seconds to act.

I do think they were going over the top with it, but that seems to be the MO these days, entertainment over skill, well I guess that's obvious given this is about making money for whomever televises it. Does Phil being a clown justify their actions, maybe not, but I feel no empathy for Phil, how could you ?



This

http://thebiggame.pokerstars.net/episodes/

how long have these been out? just saw them today...

+1.

Funny how 90% of the PH love is from gimmick n00b accounts, though not as funny as the world best poker player getting






and then having DN & TG



on him.