1) I don't believe I'm attacking you and your post seems to be deflecting more than answering real questions about what you do. I wrote out the defenses that your players have used when other players have asked them about it and I gave multiple people, including yourself, an opportunity to have your say prior to release. I also mentioned more than once in the article that PokerStars has thus far cleared your methods.

2) Most everything described in the article was a result of at least one of your players that uses the program speaking about it.

3) I wish I had more information about it. I didn't publish the wild speculation ("skier has bots" and "postflop strategies too" among other things) that many players talk about, because I hadn't seen you or anyone that uses the program actually write about it.

If you talked more about what you're doing, if it's so OK and fair I think the community would be more accepting. You can certainly talk about the nature of a software, program, set of charts, decision trees, strategy without giving away that strategy. Picture most software or strategies out there, I think they can be described in far more detail than you are giving away without compromising the value of said software/strategies.

Ohhh come on skier. I`m not a big fan of Ryan but it doesn`t affect only his students. It`s a big problem for a whole community so suggesting that Ryan attacked you because there is a conflict of interest is at least dumb.

I think you are trying to split hairs here..

So you basically saying if a program just tells you what to click and u actually click a button - thats allowed since its not "automated" ey?

Ban all software imo. All of it.

Yes, it appears that he did.

Done.

the big problem is it appears anyone renting your program has 100% success rate of being a winning player, while if you visit training sites, study the videos, buy coaching from coffeeyay etc, there's no guarantee of success.

This reminds me of the type of things seat scripters say. Just admit you use the program and embrace the love you will get from it. You are going to get the hate and backlash either way now no matter what you say. Congrats on improved winrate enjoy it while it last before everyone else has a program and then you are on a countdown to busto because you can't win without a script or program

amen brother. Im with you

You think this kinda news motivates the fun players here on 2+2 to get out and grind?

The fact you don't expand on this tells me something is up.

I'm simplifying the situation here, but isn't this HU program just another ICMizer tool but more advanced? I don't mind if this software exists to be used for studying off the tables, but much like ICMizer I dont think Pokerstars should let you use it while playing

Is this the type of software rumored to be spread wildly among the high-stakes players?
I know we are jokingly referring them to "GTO dream machines" but imo it should be taken serious and definitely not be kept a secret if it is softwares that actively aid while playing rather than just analyzing off the table.

Poker have enough problems without people eeking out every edge with unethical (albeit clever) use of certain software.
Tools like crEV, GTORB, piosolver etc (even if custom made obviosuly) = perfectly fine. But if it in any way help you while active on the table it is definitely not.

Thread became more interesting, why no description of what the software does with the response from skier_5.

If the software is actually telling what should be done vs people.
That seems automated to me and i'm a programmer that usually uses 'automated' for mouse clicks, keyboard outputs and other things...

Here is an email, stars answered as i asked about this stuff in the past (i referenced to Starshelper back then in association with something else so just ignore that):

Thank you for contacting PokerStars.

StarsHelper does not use any information not available to any observer of the game, nor does it use any means to automate play or assist in cheating (such as sharing hole cards with others).

Therefore, this program, and others like it are permitted for use on PokerStars. Specifically prohibited are programs that share hole cards, or automate the play of the game so that it can run unattended.

You may find our policy on such software in section 5.5 of our terms of services at:


So 5.5 seems to apply very much, yet technically the game doesnt run "unattended". So maybe Stars should come in here and say, if we can write such programs or not and not have a double standard allowing it for some and disallowing it for others and then at least its clear and we all can start developing our helpers/bots/aides whatever you wanna call it...

Yah seems like it is now allowed to write software like poker tracker, where it tells you what to do before the flop with your hole cards vs people or am I wrong?
Not just showing the stats but saying fold, bet or raise automatically.

Good God. Just the tip of the iceberg it seems. Writing our own bots? Scary stuff itt for the casual players who are not bot/hud/aide savvy such as myself.
And yet, people wonder why online poker has been on a rapid decline over the last decade?

It's clearly more than preflop charts being randomized by a computer. skier_5, AllinGirl777 & freechdogg have identical preflop, flop and even turn stats (within ~1%) of eachother over large samples (sorry, not posting the data here.) No amount of cooperative studying could produce those results.

If I had to guess, the software is capable of reading the stack sizes, hole cards and community cards. It then outputs the play (randomized ofcourse) and the human just has to follow. To be even more sleek, he could run the software on another computer and make it impossible for Stars to detect.

If this is the case and PokerStars cleared it, then why is Snowie, PioSolver, etc. prohibited?

Why run it on another computer when you can have an OS in a virtual machine running the poker client and have the software on the OS that is outside the VM. Evil software does that and no need to do that if what I'm getting at is true about pokerstar's tos.

This thread missed out on a very valuable opportunity by omitting a poll.

whats the name and site of this software

its private only available by paying X% of your profits to skier

Im speculating, but

Seems to me like you can use a software which tells you the ev of available actions based of data available to you.. If in doubt pull up the exact chart you need and instantly see color coded "advice".

Just get the soft preprogrammed with ranges from a "coach" and learn while u play (learning is optional) for a cut of profit I guess this also has charts for postflop aswell.

Only reason this isnt sold publicly is because it would kill pokers before Dev makes money because stars probably wouldnt allow it or everyone would get it and recs would not want to play human bots.

It is a program you put OR, fold to 3bet , OS, limp , lf
and fold to mr , 3bet , rol

And it compute the best preflop strategy right?

It would be incredibly difficult to make a meaningful distinction between some of the potential methods that could be used to achieve an execution of such a strat.

And if PS did ban all such methods, many of the people speaking out against Skier would be shooting themselves in the foot, they just don't realize it.

PS did a thorough investigation and said what he's doing is fine/within terms. So at this point I don't see how he owes anyone any details in relation to how/what he does. It's kinda unfair for him to be asked to explain the details of what he does on a public forum, and he would absolutely be giving value away by doing so. I really didn't want to post anything at all myself I just want to say I support Skiers side of this.

pokerstars has to put up a clause that prohibits this kinds of softwares. and prohibits by confiscating the account, so these cheaters are scared

so what, ps investigate and said its fine LOL this isn't the old PS. you should realize that, and supporting this types of activities is scammy. I guess you're prob defending him because u use it urself?
If this passes, it def opens up from it spreading through other poker formats. And him not saying what the program does is even more suspicious. If I had a program and had this kind of suspicion about it, the first thing I'd do is to explain what the program does.