the cartels are way ahead of you on this one, they added azn-ra to the $200 division some time ago even though he was heavily suspected of being a bot purely because they didn't want to get hurt playing him

Nah, seems fine. Very easy for someone just to go through a couple of folders and open a pdf, and banning that would be absurd.

Are you serious? There is a ton of software that is prohibited to use while playing - exactly because you shouldn't do that. Else why for example something like ICMIZER shouldn't be opened while you play? You can recognize a situation, click somewhere and the info you want is there.... This is literally the definition for that and it is not allowed.

Indeed. Nevermind teh TimStone's anti-Twitch diatribes. Software aids are the real nail in the coffin for online poker.
If you still want to be working for a poker site in a year's time, I suspect the correct answer is 'yes'. Sitting on your hands as SnG traffic grinds to a halt probably isn't a great career move imo.

If something exists in a form which can't be banned, why should something else which is the same in substance but not in form be banned?

Also FWIW a calculator is very different from a set of pdfs.

Evryone ITT should be pissed imo

and its not even debatable, you cant even come up with an argument as to how this helps the economy and for poker in the long run

It doesn't look good for poker but skier has done no wrong.

Making this public is worst than the facts imo

You give the idea to hundreds of people and they will start buying/creating softs like this, bots.

Hi DarkMattersManAre u reading my mind lol I to are a fun player who wins at mtt's & spews some at cash, I STOPPED PLAYING NO-LIMIT cash about 5-6 years ago & now only play plo cash as i have a better chance to run it up.
I enjoy the game very much but i had to stop playing nl cash because well it wasin't fun grinding & using a hud & i found it to be quite frankly dishonest.
If all sports/games allow these technical advances to become part of there games then we might as well just allow the computer boffins to run most sports/games without the human factors that make them fun to watch rail.
I know of at least 100 plus rec players who also stopped because of these tools, & they actually put quite a lot of $'s into the sites and very rarely cashed out any significant amount of $.
While discussing with a family friend about poker who i can honestly say is a fish asked me a QUESTION which i could not answer y or n to- (Whats to stop these guys who use huds/icm calcs/ or software designed to make there decisions on me from NOT attaching it to stars but running it on another laptop etc & setting up the table exactly as it is on the poker site & using the info to then beat me.)
And i can't say that they CANT
Internet poker was fun when it started, i honestly don't have a solution to bring back the fish/fun players.
Banning ALL AIDS/TOOLS would be a Very good start & then by stars being more transparent & better with security implementation & prosecution if a crime can be proven.
Com'on guys this internetz pokerz just ain't the game we started to play when online poker began.
(i know it will never be that way again but at least we can get back to the game known as TEXAS HOLD'EM)

People seriously believe this is about flipping through a few pdfs while playing?

I´m sure the guys who compiled this had a reason to move it beyond the skype groups into public and that reason is justified imo. The public should become aware of that and now its Stars turn to decide what they want to and sent out a clear statement to the players that either this is the way to go, or this will be not allowed.
I doubt they would have moved otherwise tbh.

In game databse use and HUDs crossed the line long time ago. This is just another interation and you can't ban one without banning the other and stay consistent in your rules . Afterall you can just import to a db some bazilion hands played by local GTO bot against itself and display its stats in the HUD along with ranges and all other info.
As usual the outcry only happens once the tools get good enough. People were ok with ****ty table scanners but once someone made automatic scripts and that someone wasn't them crying foul started.
HUDs and dbs which are totally unfair from recreational player perspective and offer you huge advantage over them? As long as it costs 100$ to acquire and regs have access to it = OK. Once someone starts using that for something actually very useful during play against other regs and didn't make it available publicly: FOUL.

My view is that any in-game tools which serve as memory-aid or in any way suggest decisions are not ok. Making distinctions between them is silly and there will always be a way or a loophole in the rules to make it more and more powerful.
You can't allow to have a simple chart but ban a better chart and hope to enforce it in any way or form.

Can u explain the stat charts in the pic a little bit? I don't play hypers and play on bovada so haven't used huds or even stats really in quite some time. under total are those the different blind levels? by minute?

thanks for any clarification

Maybe i'm naive but given stars has approved this, I think it's fair to say that this software isn't anywhere near as powerful as people are making out
- particularly post flop which seems
To be a clear breach of their terms.

I think this software is basically preflop only (which is ok according to their terms but I personally think should be banned given it's taking 1 thought process away from the player).

So if that's all it is, I can only imagine these guys have become good by busting a gut working with skier to actually become better players.
How many weak regs would be able to make it to the $200s if they worked solidly and effectively with a $1k crusher?

Can we just step back and ask ourselves whether this thread is full of misstatements and accusations based on incorrect assumptions?

Not really, I personally and most people I know dislike the use of huds in poker or any software at all. If none of it were to exist my edge would be at its largest. Because they are freely available, allowed for use, and provide an edge however at least some people are always going to use them if possible. This starts the arm race in which we are currently locked where even if you don't want to use it you obviously have to.

This arms race is only escalating and only one site afaik has taken effective measures to thwart this. Bovada. Stars get with it. Software is killing the games. Offline software for study what are you gonna do. It would be preferable if that didn't exist either but it does and it is fine. Whatever you can fit in your own head and utilize without electronic aids during live gameplay is fine by me.

If Pokerstars is open on a player's computer however nothing else relating to poker should be.

+1 to banning huds, but it might be too late... I don't think banning huds is going to bring a new influx of players, but it would cause everyone to have to play less tables. Thus, less rake for Stars.

Maybe, banning huds AND developing a more recreational model (like Bovada) would be best in the long run.

Unibet too. Mainstream HUDs don't work on Unibet, and seating is randomized too (player names are not shown in lobbies, so table-selection and bumhunting are not an obvious issue).
That said, in the longer-term, screen-scraping software will doubtless be used by players looking to get an edge in any format they desire. All a site can realistically do is slow down the eventual "robot takeover".

Very true, but most ppl are just selfish ****s and thats why.

For the record, I agree with everything in your post.

Reading some older posts here I see this sentiment a lot:

in one form or the other.
This is just naive. There is little to no difference between a HUD which tells you that an opponent folds too much in some line and one which tells you to bet there. You can always phrase it as "just stats" yet decision will be completely obvious or even indicated by the color the number is displayed in. Sophisticated enough HUD is the same as software giving you advice during play and only requiring you to click.
The only reason complaining happens against Skier is that the guy is apparently better at making and applying the tools everyone else happily use in one form or the other.

Yes people are that naive they also think its possible that they used a clock to mix their ranges. hahahahah omg humanity.

Yes you are goodhearted but ye very naive. :P There is programs out there that can solve turn and rivers for full GTO tree's in less than a second to think that they haven't used similair technology like that when creating this bot is beyond being naive.

Not surprised. Amaya is to online poker what liquor is to an alcoholic. Just bad.

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nah, teh real nail is pushing out education. Same like with scripts that new "software" is a mere symptom of teh current state of games. If edges get to thin you have to come up with new ways to create new edges. If people didnt created sites like husngpoker.com or whatever in teh first place there prolly wouldnt even be a need for such software. Its again pathetic that some guy who pushes education to teh masses is teh first one to complain and bitch when his bottomline gets hurt while this guy singledhandedly hurt teh bottomlines of 1000s of players with his education site. Speaking of karma.




Scripts started the same way. A handful of people suspected one guy of using a seating aid and instead of directly developing their own like i did they started to bitch about it on 2+2 instead. We all know what happend... people dont learn. Half a year from now everybody will have such software aid and alotta programers will make big bank on teh way.

10bb hu poker gets solved one day - wat a shocker 😂😂😂

[spoiler]kind rgds from teh TimStone[/spoiler]

well said