this system can be rigged 1% in stars favor and can never be found out because variance exists and its always gonna be an excuse. rigtards thought its rigged because of reasons like keeping fish in the pool so the games run so they get more rake and stuff, which i agree is farfetched (although still possible however unlikely) but this change directly puts stars AGAINST you and we have no way to monitor if they are being fair. its like betting someone to toss a coin while you close your eyes for 10k a pop, 100 times in a row, and hoping that they are honest in telling u that u won or lost. GL with that.

as i said the only people who can monitor this is the gambling commission, and they dont even know what poker rake is so this is gg for me surely enough

Probably more like the GC are in the pocket of multimillion/billion dollar companies.

Sounds like a good way to stay 100 stacks under EV forever. How are you supposed to win your EV's back?

#nitlife

I've gone all-in on turn or earlier 5370 times in my last 500k hands. This means I would've paid 53 buyins in rake if I used cash out every time. Do you really think that is a good alternative?

AS i see this option now, it mainly move money from the table... ... I've seen many rec. players go for the insurance being on SS and having f.e. 10-30% of chances to win the hand... they take the insurance to get those, but when they win the hand, money they would usually have move out from the table ... Shitty thing ...

Being 100bi under EV has nothing to do with the skill level of a player. His EV could be -5bb/100 and he's 100bi below that.

What about the majority of times when they don't win the hand and money is added to the table?

Obviously small sample but villain has taken cashout approx 8-10 times vs me and I've lost every one despite being ahead! Anyone else had a similar experience? Obv Stars not cheating but it's starting to get weird now. Terrible feature regardless, slows the game slightly, takes more money from the players and only recs will use it. Also, I don't think it would be totally clear what it is to rec players when it first pops up. Can imagine a lot of people panic accepting. The first time it is offered it should be clear that Stars is robbing 1% from you.

The problem is, that f.e. many of recs start playing w/ around 60-80BB and usually are not adding chips every hand so when they are taking/leaving 20% of it and not rebuying it's the same as they would loose the hand tbh. So f.e. if rec with 60BB shoves having 20% EV and he wins, he have 120BB usually stays at the table and play further, and I'm ok with that (even when I'm the who lost). On the other hand when he takes the insurance shoving with 60 BB taking the insurance and wining he usually is left with around 12 BB and virtually is leaving the table, going crazy and loosing it either way...

When he take the insurance and loose the money still is at someones else hand, and TBH in this solution and don't think it's very important to have left on the table with 12BB... ...

Are recs really cashing out 12bb just to leave the table? Genuine question.

In my experience they cashout whenever and then keep playing on a mega short stack.

Not only does money get taken off the table through this, but I've seen plenty of fish delay their reload in favor of a micro stack.

Watching the 6+ games, Stars are making a fortune in additional rake thanks to Cashout as recreationals are consistently favouring taking their micro stack as equity, rather than topping up, and then shoving that short stack instead. With equities running so close together 6+ is a rake goldmine at the best of times, let alone when it becomes a shove-fest.

same experience here, the fact im flipping vs stars without any monitoring is sick

Yeah... Fishes and recs (specially some Donks and Maniacs) are insuring their 20% EQ. few times i've seen that fish insured like 8 or 10% of EQ and won... XD...

Just like someone mentioned above, this is a freeroll for PokerStars ... On the other hand i think I'm more often called by fishes when I'm ahead like 65-75% ahead. So counting out the situations when I loose i think i have better hourly atm. specially when there is many fishes on the tables. If there is one per table unfortunatelly the money flew out the table...

On the other hand for Cashouts and the number of fishes PS made a good decision to reduce no of max tables... for me now it's like 4 tables on PS + some Zoom... And in my opinion the no. of Fishes on normal tables went up.

do stars take into account players cards which folder pre flop in their EV calculation.
if they don't , then doesn't it give you an edge over the house when you have a nut flush draw you can happily check raise happy on non paired flop . if you can cash out around 30% percent . since some opponents which folded pre hold some of you outs , and in reality you only have lets say about 20% if 4 of the suit cards you need are dead . am i totally off on this thought ?

Why are you assuming the other players have the suit you need?

im not assuming, but there is a high chance since in 6max the other say 4 players would have 16 cards out of the deck .
Oh , oopsy daisy , forgot to mention im plahing PLO exclusively .

since the suit you need take up 25% of the deck , and all 6 players will hold 24/52 46% of the deck then im assuming some of the player are holding your outs with a good amount of probability .

and in the worst case , if none player are holding your outs , then you end up paying 1% to stars , but if some player are holding 4 of your outs then stars actually pays you 10% ( 20% ev in reality vs 30% stars payed on your cash out ) roughly ... im not a math guy .

You need to sit down and think this through real well because you're massively misunderstanding some very basic stuff about outs in hands

Yes, you're right that some time ALL your outs are dead. Other times they are ALL live. On average, guess what, it evens out

sure it evens out, but if start doesn't count dead cards in their ev cash out calculation, then you can never be wrong since in the worst case they will pay you the best price as if no body holds your out. but other times they will actually pay you more. win/win .

maybe you can explain how this is wrong thinking ? this is why im posting my thoughts here.

Forgive the savagery, but if you think like this, you should probably cash out 100% of your roll.

It is not true that true equities are affected by the presence of unknown/unseen cards in other people's hands. This has been demonstrated/explained/documented many times here on 2+2 and elsewhere.

Here is a link to a stickied thread in the Probability Forum.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...-draw-1619362/


ETA: It could be true that you have information/reads/etc on some of your opponents' holdings. Such information could affect the true equities.

whats this supposed to mean ?
ok , i was prepared to get bashed here. but ...
you are saying that if you have information on some of your opponent holdings then it could affect the true equities ?
well you do have information , you know that there is a high probability that they are holding some of your outs most of the time. That is the information that you are holding. and if im getting cash back 30% ev when the information i have tells me the reality is the ev is 25% on average , given the extra information i'm holding, then stars is paying me 4% ( -1% i give them for using the cashout )

... there ... now let the bashing continue. ( ps , now im going to read through the link you posted. thanks. )

ok i think the answer is that start do take into account the cards that opponents are holding .
because to get 35% chance of getting a flush is already an average of all the cases when the opponents have or have not your outs. there is the answer. so there is no edge in cashing out.
and for all the basings that will continue , you did not answer my question "does stars take into account dead cards?" yes, they do . 35% probablility of a flush is an average between those times your cards are live and not. At least that is what i make of it from reading post #15 @whosnext over here
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...-draw-1619362/

You seem to be struggling with rather basic concepts.

PokerStars "knows" the identity of unknown/unseen dead cards by other opponents not in the all-in pot.

It is possible, though very very very very unlikely, that PokerStars uses that "knowledge" in their calculation/display of the respective equities of the all-in players.

In the much more probable case in which PokerStars does not use that "knowledge", then the calculation/display of the respective equities of the all-in players is tantamount to "ignoring" the other players' unknown/unseen cards.