I find this answer highly suspicious. If you believe the player was cheated out of 200k, wouldn't it be a no-brainer to simply refund the player the 200k (or most of it)?

Increasing the number/size of jackpots wouldn't directly refund the player you said was cheated, and wouldn't be transparent. It seems like you just want to keep the 200k...

refunding innocent players would defnitely have to be more transparent then doing more jackpots. I understand it is probably close to impossible to backtrack exactly how much people got cheated out of, but there could be more reasonable ways like doing a "confiscated money per stake" and then refund players in relation to the amount of hands they played on that stake. like "we confiscated ¥1M on 10/20/40 over a total of roughly 5mio hands played. oh hey Account 641275461 you played x amount of hands on 10/20/40 so you get y% of the ¥1M we confiscated on that stake ktxhxbye

//the dude below me decided he wanted to post with another account i guess

Apparently not, according to the site rep, a specific player was cheated out of 200k...

And yet the player hasn't been refunded the 200k... Hmm...

by my understanding this seems to be the one biggest "case" at the biggest stakes (very low traffic obv) they have, that might obv be easier to backtrack and "worth" investigating specifically. i can understand though that they cant simply backtrack millions of hands and work out every bigblind that someone may or may not have been cheated out of. i just offered a solution that i think would be the most fair, transparent, and still reasonable.

And what should they do when they determine a specific player was cheated out of a specific amount? Like they have already determined? Would you agree a refund is a no-brainer?

if one specific player and/or a "situation" like that was investigated, where a whole game simply ran to cheat one specific guy out of his money, then yes, i agree 100%.

So if we turn back to original topic , any update about the frozen accounts? I know you said a week 3 days ago, but just curious how it is going.


Tapatalk kullanarak iPhone aracılığıyla gönderildi

Still frozen. Waiting for them to go through "my community". Given what's been said in this thread, and knowing I haven't colluded (or/and used assistance scripts etc), I'm confident my funds will be unfroze. It's just the waiting game for them to go through each communities until they reach my IDs. Probably will take a few days


Will say though, even though the initial communication sucked leaving everyone in the dark, having someone in the thread certainly has eased things. You wouldn't get communication as to what actually happens with collusion groups from security team at stars.



+1 to the 'try to reimburse those that got cheated the most if possible instead of wide site freerolls' chatter.

1) I wouldn’t say I know the players well, I know 3 of them mostly from live poker, which I play infrequently and through mutual friends who have played with those people more regularly in the past (some of which have been streamed and I’ve watched). I certainly wouldn’t claim to know their stylistic tendencies, but I’m aware those 3 are good tough players.
Why would I have any interest in knowing their screen names when they all play higher stakes than me? I didn’t even know 2 of them played on the site until recently, I don’t speak to any of them aside from live poker run-ins.
2) I’m aware the person who manages my funds is an acquaintance of those aforementioned players. I’m not sure how fund management on the site works, but it’s a reasonable assumption that this person would transfer profits to other accounts if people are short of funds on the site as I am told there is a fee for cashing out.
Yes I repeat I have no financial ties to those players. I’m not staked by them, don’t have action in them and haven’t swapped action with them or anything similar.
3) Yes I play lower. My volume for the last couple of months has been almost exclusively at 10/20/40, whereas as far as I know the others play 25/50/100 and above. Initially for a period in Jan I played mostly 25/50/100, but found the swings a bit stressful. I know very little about the recreational guy other than a brief mention from a friend who players higher basically saying that there was a guy that never folds pre, playing big and was losing a lot. If that’s me knowing a lot about him then ok, I do.
4) Sure I had £25k over 3 accounts, I’d been running decent and was going to cash some out, until this. It’s not that outrageous to have ~7-8BI on each account though

It seems clear my account has somehow been linked to the others through some sort of account transfer link as I’ve mentioned it’s literally impossible for it to be anything to do with my play or personal actions playing on the site. I’m not sure how you can tell me that’s not being labelled guilty by association.

So we're talking days now yes?
And yeah, adding money from colluders and bots into current pool for everyone instead of affected players would look pretty bad

Hello lindyhppr.

I am the developer of Poker Minion and so I would just like to quickly correct your initial perception of what the software is:

It is assistance software in the sense that it helps you tile tables, gives you hotketys, alerts you when it is your turn to act, etc.

VPIP Boost is not a feature that is part of Minion for Poker King, nor has it ever been.

The "Seat Script" isn't a seat script. It notifies you where there is a free seat without any predatory behaviour. It makes no distinction between any players at the table. It has no idea who is sitting at the table, or if they are any good or not.

In short, Minion is a "Table Ninja for Poker King." There is no AI/GTO or any other type of assistance in terms of advising the user on actions. It does not make anyone play any better. It automates mundane tasks, with the goal of improving the playing experience.

Cheers!

Hi - I’ve not posted on the forum for a while but feel everyone need to hear my side of the story

Id like to say that I personally have never ever colluded or used bots to play on any site.

I have shared tables with people I know within the community, as depending on the time there is 1-10+ tables of 25/50/100, I personally 3-4 table but I know guys that play 6 tables, so it’s easy we end up being on same table. We sometimes discuss hands and always play our 100% best against each other and are hugely competitive in who’s better like all players

Our accounts are all in the same community, and the accounts were given to us by the same agent which registered the account and provided the passwords to us at the cost of 100 yuan per account for cost of sim card. As we are based in the Uk and would need GBP £, to cashout yuan, the agent can only send RMB (yuan) for HKD to a suncity card which we then find someone to exchange for £.

We never handle the transfers ourselves but the agent has 4 assistants who work shifts and they can do it via something we later found out as the VIP channel. There is around 2.5% fee to cashout RMB into suncity HKD so often we would as to send the pokerking coins to each other when someone has been winning whilst someone else needs more.

HUD’s:
Some of us are playing on LD player and uses H2N. We admitted this with the contracted security high stakes regs that were contracted to look at this case, and were reassured that we wouldn’t be punished for admitting using H2N as so many players even recs use it.

Recreational player at 200/400
Around the end of February there was a very recreational player that were playing the highest stakes and was VPIPing 100pc. Subsequently 5-6 tables of 200/400 would open and would all hope that the recreational player would sit on their tables. I know few guys within this community that went to “bum hunt” this rich recreational player, but were very careless in their approach, using the same source of funds to transfer money to cover the recreational player and also swapping action to reduce variance.

This might be considered unethical but knowing these people they were only trying to have action vs the recreational player and had no intentions to collude, as just playing vs this player is huge value. If you look at the HS lobby on pokerstars, it’s the exact same when there is a rich recreational player. More tables would open, long waiting lists and regs would swap action and send money to each other to try cover the rich rec.

Furthermore, some members of this community never ever played this game and only plays smaller games. If we were really colluding as a community, do you think we’d use the same agent, same funds and same club? I understand the evidence looks like we would have easily colluded, but the truth is we didn’t. We are all hard working poker players. We all lost a lot of money on pokermaster to colluders and knew pokerking took collusion very seriously and would confiscate all funds on account if found guilty with their report system.

I fully back PokerKings no tolerance approach to collusion, and understand the evidence looks bad against us and the players that were hunting the rich rec was very greedy and careless, but this is purely because they did not collude and did not think about how it would LOOK. It isn’t hard to use multiple agents and different source of funds and clubs, which is what real colluders do to avoid detection.

INNOCENT hardworking players have been wrongfully punished in this case and there needs to be another review, which I, and probably all players in this community will give full cooperation

never ceases to amaze how stupid and lacking in self awareness some poker players can be

Hi, I would like to post my situation.
My accounts have been frozen and funds confiscated.
Firstly I have never colluded or cheated on this site or any other. I have played highstakes poker for 12 years in which time I have never been accused of anything untoward.
I have been provided with no evidence of any wrong doing.
I had approximately £80k on the site.

As mentioned above money would be transferred between accounts as there is a 2.5% withdrawal fee so this was to avoid constantly depositing/withdrawing.

The vast majority of my play was at 25/50/100.
I had no financial interest in any of the players accused of bum hunting this whale and they had none in me. I did not share/swap action with anyone other than the person who got me on the site agreed to take 30pc of my action. I also took some action in a player who never played above 50/100 and id guess 90% of his volume was 25/50 and lower. So clearly I have no financial interest in anyone playing the same games as me. Obviously I have no way of proving this however as I've played high stakes for a number of years I can provide any number of reputable references and vouches if required.

I never used a a script or worked as a team. I simply opened tables and sat in games with open seats.

I played on the site for maybe 5 or 6 weeks. Id guess i played 200 hours of which less than 1 hour was at 100/200/400. I believe I did play in the game with the guy who lost $200k for maybe 30 minutes. I guess I played 40 hands - Obviously pokerking can review all these hands. If anything this provides evidence I wasn't colluding. If i were why would I only play for 30 mins in supposedly an amazing game when Im supposed to be part of a collusion ring? Here is the hand I stacked the whale in. Whale limps, sb completes, bb completes, I raise straddle with A8 off to get blinds to fold and get heads up with the whale. I check call 3 streets where whale overbets river all in, 5674x. he had KQ firstly this shows what type of player he was secondly why would I raise A8 off in the straddle to fold out the regs i'm supposedly colluding with?
That is the only time I played in that game.
I played in it because I saw how bad that one player was.

Overall I would guess the majority of my winnings were playing 2-4 handed, not exactly the type of games you play in if you're in a collusion ring.

I don't know what to believe. When the accounts were first frozen I was happy that the site was taking collusion seriously. I was confident as had played completely honestly that I would be cleared.

Either the site is dishonest and this is a cash grab or they are trying their best but they have not investigated fully. I have 4 accounts on there, i would urge pokerkings to investigate my accounts in detail. Here's my offer if you find evidence of collusion/cheating/botting/scripts in my accounts I will pay for the costs of the investigation. This is a win win for pokerkings if they are serious. If I'm found guilty they have confirmed their procedures and it will cost them nothing. If i'm found innocent then the community can be assured that the site is acting in good faith. i would urge the pokerkings rep to reply to my message and I can give any details required via pm.

This is cheating, because the money won/lost between players swapping is just play money, which creates a false dynamic, and nobody believes you aren't softplaying eachother if you're swapping and transferring between accounts to try to cover the rec.

The same thing happened a long time ago in a 3-handed game with Matt Marafioti and another player swapping action while playing against a rec, and even Issac Haxton said it was flat out cheating.

You deserve to get your funds confiscated for doing that, and the rec deserves to be refunded the amount he lost.

yeah, cash game poker is not meant to be a team game

You’ve failed to read my full post - I personally did not play in any 200/400. My main game is 25/50/100 which is 99% of my action

Ah my mistake, sorry

So it looks like a rec got bumhunted by a small fraction of a group who play high stakes - fair enough if there is evidence of softplaying/teamplaying. But what is such evidence suppose to look like when people are clearly not going to be going crazy vs other regs when they only need to collect donations from the whale.

It looks like a small fraction of a stable bumhunted a rec and won a lot of money (nothing wrong with that), and now by association the rest of the stable who played lower stakes and weren't involved in said bumhunting are paying the price. Seriously seriously woeful and I genuinely hope security bothers to look at the appeals because it's just plain wrong what's happened here.

Curious to see what % of the group even played high stakes???

Hi lindyhppr, I am new to this forum and pokerking, but i constantly browse chinese poker forums like zhiyoucheng and pokerren, and I notice some chinese players complaining their accounts being frozen without good reasons. For example, your platform told a player his account is blocked since he played differently from before, so he was suspected to collude with others and cannot have his fund back. However, your site only provides one hand to the player as evidence, which is not opening ATo in position when somebody limps ahead. As suggested by the player, no other hands are provided to him upon request, although the platform told him it was not the only hand detected, and he shared a pdf file sent from your site onto the forum as a proof. I am not 100% sure if the player tells the whole story, but it really worries me so much as it is very important to change playing style against different types of players, so there will be times we decide to raise a hand but fold in a different scenario. Is it really possible to have accounts banned solely because of this reason?

I am also concerned about the problem of huds. To my understanding, most of the non-recreational players are using hud on pokerking. If I listen to you and do not use any huds, while others choose to ignore your regulation, it would be a big disadvantage for me if your site cannot stop these users from using huds. So my question is, technically, do you really have a way to detect somebody is using a hud, if they install your app on an emulator? If yes, I dont mind not using a hud since no one can do so. If no, I have no choice but to choose between using a hud secretly and leaving your platform.

Finally, i would like to know if you have changed your mind upon pokerminion. As stated by the creator of this software, it is just kind of tableninja for pokerking, which just helps players to join the table more efficiently. People cannot boost vpip on your platform, and data mining is not even related to this software. It is always possible for players to do so if you cannot ban huds, no matter pokerminion exists or not. Personally, I find this software useful for me to multi table even without a hud, so I hope you will consider making this as a legal software to be used.

I just wanted to say, that I'm (as an affected/harmed player) also against a site wide promotion, at least from the confiscated money.

This money should go directly to the harmed players as a reimbursement and not to anyone else! (maybe minus costs for research and analysis)

If it's not possible to track the exact amounts for each harmed player, then there should be (like already mentioned earlier) some kind of check of who played in the games with the cheater + look at how money hands someone played with them, so the right players will get back at least a percentage of the scammed money.

Imho, no one, who wasn't really affected by this, should get money out of this confiscated pool and it shouldn't be used for your sites promotion, because this will not help the harmed players directly.

I know it might look bad to some players, but you are now just openly admitting, what everyone knew already anyway and even recreational players might have known about the cheating going on. But after this all players will recognise, that you try to implement a fair gaming environment and if really something happens, you will get compensated directly. So I would be (maybe others are as well) more willing to play on this site.
On the other hand, if I don't get anything back, even after some money was confiscated, I would still feel scammed and think that some people are freerolling.

Just to give everyone an update. We have thus far processed and notified 19 communities. Most of these communities were unfrozen and the money has been returned or is in the process of being returned to the players.

Poker King has taken a conservative but aggressive approach. If evidence is insufficient by our standards and that of the security panel, the accounts in question will be released. If however, an account is linked to accounts that are bots, colluders, or any other form of cheating we will take the most aggressive approach in dealing with that account.

Overall, I understand that this process has been slow and we were unequipped to handle the amount of data. During this period, we had to freeze accounts of several well known high stakes players - many of whom have significant influence in the community and money on the site. We had to do our diligence for the benefit of our community. For the most part, we have received extremely positive feedback from these players (who are encouraging a safe and cautious approach to releasing these accounts).

One final note. The community in question (where several affected players have come on voice their opinion) was a clear cut and egregious case of collusion. Being part of a stable and having a financial relationship with accounts involved in collusion implicates the account in question.

We have not decided what to do with the funds but are discussing the topic internally. The primary concern at this point is just to get through all the accounts and complete the investigation. There'll be plenty of time to decide what to do afterwards.

Would be interested to see "total number of bots banned" + "total number of colluders banned" after its all finished. Just to see how messy things are on these sites. Understandable if you dont want to release that.