To be perfectly honest, site security 6 months ago was poor and its still far from where I want it to be. These are growing pains - you are right in saying there should have been KYC earlier. But, if you understood the Asia markets, you'd also understand why KYC, as we understand it, isn't possible.

You can believe what you'd like about how this site is doing - your opinion is pretty irrelevant. I believe as long as we're doing the right things and investing in the right places, that the outcome will take care of itself.

Over the next few months, we'll be investing and implementing some of really cool tech to improve site security. As people implementing bots, assisted software, and colluding become more sophisticated, we must invest and stay several steps ahead.

This is our "HU 4 Rollz" challenge - us vs. the bots, cheaters, colluders - we intend to use our extensive resources, collective intelligence, and drive to win. If you think we'll just roll over, take our money and go home, you are sorely mistaken.

Keep it up. Many of us are glad the step you're taking.

(Just get to my IDs and unfreeze please lol )

Fml, I know who this is.

Thanks for claryifing, I’ll accept your reasoning given I was indirectly dragged in to this

That all sounds great and keep up the good work! Please fight the colluders and bots!

but - How about compensating the players who got cheated?

I mean I guess I have lost a decent chunk of money due to this cheating, even when I know that this happens everywhere on all chinese poker apps and that most likely I won't see anything of that money again, if getting colluded.
I still think, that there should be some kind of compensation to keep the honest people playing and to show the players, that it's not only about you confiscating all the money into your own pockets.

Even while I believe in your security checks, no one knows who will be next (maybe I will be also banned due to some bots, colluders in my agent "community", while I'm playing honest the whole time.)
Besides I think, that you will never be able to catch all of them as well.

So there should be some good will towards the players, who support your site and who were playing honest and played against those cheaters, which you weren't able to track or catch for a long time.

This would also show, that you really care about the players and fair games, means more people would join Pokerking from other apps. Because players will see, that you do something about the major problem in all asian apps and even if something happens to a player, you will get compensated. So playing will be more fair and enjoyable again.

Am so confused by this post in light of your previous posts. You went from I definitely did nothing to "ok, fair's fair" after 1 response. Surely there's a lot more too this?

Hahaha exactly my thoughts

I will like to say I still have done nothing wrong and adamant that I am innocent in this.

The reason why I have accepted that the response is because I’m part of the stable in question.

And I don’t know for sure what happened with the guys who were chasing the recreational amongst several stakes.

Yes I know the guys in the stable but however I never sought out to collude with them, I didn’t even learn of their Account IDs up until the final few days before banned. I do have hhs where I’m actively battling these guys.
I understand the reason for me being banned is because my accounts are linked to these “collusion accounts” by agent
I know that Pokerking are strict with their collusion process and that even though I’ve not done anything wrong I’m banned by proxy because they can’t risk any further possible collusion from the stable


I will never participate in such activities and can get respected members of 2p2 community to vouch for me

Ah my bad, I understand what you meant now. DW, you've always been good by me!

.

You've kinda of read our minds - we agree with you completely. We haven't decided exactly how to compensate players effected but we're considering all options. The site does red envelope jackpots - our initial thinking is to increase the number and size of these jackpots for the players. Nothings been decided yet though so check back in after the investigations are done.

Still ****ing ******ed that you can ban an entire stable when very clearly not everyone in the group was cheating. You spend weeks gathering data for no apparent reason - you may have just said, FK it ban all the cunce, because you clearly don't have evidence to ban every single player in that group. It's lazy and pretty malicious tbh.

It's pretty lazy and malicious thinking to assume that we haven't done our homework. I don't expect everyone to agree with how we operate but those who do will choose to play on our site. Those who don't can just go play on Poker Master, Red Dragon, or PPP - in fact I suggest you do, then decide for yourself what you prefer.

If you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas.

+1

Your answer is just silly. So stable give people bankroll to play and get % of their profits usually 50%+ now you as a poker club/app owner learn that most of this stable is involved in a very shaddy bussiness to maximize their profits at the expense of everyone. I would do exactly the same in their shoes. The people that should be responsible to make it right should be the scammers that tried to cheat in a first place. You don't know the terms of the horse that is in the stable but for sure you want to stop the stable owners that scam from profiting from this entire sham. A lot of the stables are just shaddy shaddy bussinesses and borderline scummy. I am aware of at least several Poker Master PLO groups that based their enitre bussineses on seating 3+ guys same table and playing dead cards.

@lindyhppr any chance you could PM the name of the stable that got banned? I could get them banned in quite a few places. I can get super strong vouches regarding my position. Probably we have quite a few connections together.

Btw, its interesting that you're an agent for Poker King (and several other Chinese sites like PM, RD, etc.) - I'm guessing you have a few accounts on the site that have been frozen. We are processing the accounts and we'll get there. I apologize that your players may have to wait a bit before we get to them.
http://harveymeale.com/

I'm curious though, you mention on your website several things that are interesting:

1) Assisted Software and Data Mining: You help players install HUDs and a software called Poker Minion - which calls itself "Assisted Software" and includes seating scripts (which are definitely not allowed on the site) and a feature called VPIP boost (which basically allows two of your accounts to play each other to increase VPIP; thus deceiving the players you play against). We really frown upon predatory practices like using seating scripts not to mention assistance software is prohibited. Data mining is also prohibited.

2) Staking: You yourself are offering potential staking deals and install software for players you bring on.

At the very least, you promoting (and helping others to install) assistance software is a pretty gross violation of our Terms of Service (although we are not explicitly enforcing HUDS, you are obviously promoting them to your players).

In any case, we'll take our time to figure out what types of sw are being used and whether there are any issues with the accounts frozen.

Maybe our communication isn't the best, but we're going to do right by the players.

Again, a little communication with your players would go a long way. I was told that this software is allowed to be used on the site... And I'm more than happy to not recommend the use of any third party tools if you actually clarify what your terms are. I'm not trying to subert your rules, I just don't know what they are.

You say HUDs are prohibited? And then you say that rule isn't being enforced? And yet Minion (that I've never used or recommended for PK btw, only PM - and if I did, would only be used to tile emulators across a screen) is supposedly going to give users more advantage than using a HUD?

Again, if you're more up front about what is/is not allowed, I'm more than willing to play ball.

1) You are an agent for the site.
2) Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse.
3) Your site is called Demystifying PokerMaster - As an agent, don’t you think step one is to at least read the Terms of Service? If you don’t read Chinese, find someone that does.

This site was never designed for overseas players. If you’re promoting it, figure out what is allowed and what’s not - otherwise you are exposing your players to risks they may not understand.

but that would include doing real work instead of shilling for easy money from clueless players!? thats not the American Dream!!!!

I would like to discuss my case.
I am one of the players that has been linked to this ‘community of players’ it has been determined have been colluding (or whatever it is that’s been found). My accounts have been frozen and I’ve had roughly £25,000 seized.
The most frustrating part of this for me is that not only do I not know the screen-names of any of those accused in this fiasco, but I don’t even play the same stakes as any of the other players in this ‘community’ as far as I’m aware. It doesn’t take a lot of investigating to determine that it’s not even possible for me to be involved in any of the alleged actions.
There is certainly a chance that funds pass between accounts of those under investigation (I do not directly handle funds on the site), but I have no shared action with any of these players or financial ties with them. I’d also throw in that I’ve never used a HUD or any other assisting software while playing on the site, not that that appears to be the main issue.
Furthermore I’d like to say that although it’s been made out that these players have somehow systematically hunted down and scammed this recreational player out of 200k, let it be noted that these players were playing the highest stakes that run on the site, where traffic is minimal. It’s not unreasonable that these players all noticed when this player was online and all made sure they got a seat at his table wherever possible, also this doesn’t break any rules. It’s also not surprising he lost 200k playing 200/400 ante games where he was cold-calling all 3/4 bets with literally ATC from what I’ve been told.
As I said, I don’t have ties with these guys, don’t know their accounts and haven’t spoken to them, so I can’t possibly comment on their play. I would say i’d be shocked if those I know did something stupid like colluding, they’ve always gone hard against eachother any time I’ve played with them in the past (live) and it’s just not in their nature.
Finally I’ve been given no evidence of any wrongdoing on the app. Seems absurd to me I can have such an amount seized for doing nothing wrong and having absolutely no meaningful ties to those accused of foul play on the site

Not sure how Pokermaster and PK are the same thing? In the case of PK, I was told directly from my agent that these tools were allowed.

So the english version was just for funsies?

This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say the way PKA security has handled this is unacceptable.

Once you tell us which rules you'll bother to enforce ill gladly do so.

Pretty cheeky/unapologetic behaviour by site rep after coming out of a month long silence while thousands of accounts were frozen, just telling us to trust them after having shown clear incompetence, at least in communication and transparency, and confiscating funds from players who aren't guilty of any wrongdoing apart from sharing the same agent as some SUPPOSEDLY dishonest players. I know it's a delicate situation but having to wait and trust the "collective intelligence" and integrity of a team who seems just as confused as we are is upsetting, to say the least. I do hope they are well-intentioned and will find a way to settle this without financially hurting the innocents. Good luck.

I wonder if the same guys outraged by the freezing of legit player accounts were also a part of the same mob that dogpiles in "ban the bots @poker site XYZ" threads.

Can't have it all boys, on either side of action or inaction.

Just to make this explicit - the community wasn't shut down as a unit through guilt by association. There is evidence directly from members of the community and from data gathered on the platform that links these accounts together. Every account in the community was linked via irrefutable evidence.

Curious about a few things:

1) You clearly seem to know players very well (down to play style) but claim not to know their screen names.
2) You're mentioning something about transfers and funds passing between accounts but having no financial ties to them.
3) You say you play different stakes but seem to be very familiar with the player that was colluded against playing 25/50+.
4) Also, you said you had 25K seized - if you're playing very different stakes (implying you play lower stakes) as you claim, why do you have $25K on the site?

As one poster pointed out, I am unapologetic about security and keeping games safe. If you knew what I know about other Chinese sites, you would never play on them. The number of players that have been cheated, scammed, colluded against (not to mention bots) would shock you.

I do want to apologize for the poor communication - Poker King was not set up to handle communication directly with players outside of China. That responsibility was explicitly given to agents who the company signed up to promote the overseas players. No excuses though. We signed up the agents and if they failed to deliver then we failed.

This thread is turning into a psuedo appeals discussion which it was never meant to be. I have faith that by doing the right thing, the success of the site will take care of itself. Having a safe, secure place to play with an extremely soft player pool is a privilege, not a right. If you disagree with our practices, you are more than welcome to play elsewhere.

Moving forward, I'll give general updates but will no longer address individual accounts.