That 6:5 is brutal. Even with counting you can never counter the almost 1.5% house edge. I heard there is even blackjack with 1:1 payouts. But this story shows two things.

A: The floor have no idea about their games.

or/and

B: There is more to this story.



Ok these are major mistakes on your part. You should have left the blackjack tables alone. They may have allowed you to play the tournament had you not went to the blackjack table. You should have left as soon as they told you to leave. They can make up any reason to ban you and it will just be your word against their words. It is not a winning battle. If he asked you to leave and then put your hands on you as you were leaving you should have sued.

How do you know this? If you were getting coupons in the mail, then they already had your name, and probably a copy of your DL from when you got your rating card. How could the police have info that Horseshoe didn't already have? Unless there are some other criminal charges from Vegas that you're leaving out of the story.

You do realize that all of Harrah's rating systems are linked, right? And if the Linq had your name/info, do you think they wouldn't have recorded it in the system? Perhaps the Linq incident was the reason you were backed off at the Horseshoe in the first place? I think you realize now that they wouldn't have told you if this was the case.

I'm sure you had no problems staying in their hotels, because they thought you were listening when they said, "just don't play blackjack anymore, and we'll be cool." You didn't have any more issues...until you decided to play blackjack again.

Also,

Again, you have no way of knowing whether you were banned from "only the Linq," or all the Harrah's/Caesars properties. When the GM invited you back the next night "to explain," did he ask for your full name and phone number? Did he make a copy of your ID? And you thought it was just because he wanted to buy you drinks? Really?

Maybe if you had gone back, he would have explained to you why it would be a really bad idea to play blackjack at any of their properties after you've been flagged as a card counter.

And this doesn't make sense at all:

So, it "never occurred to you" that this could happen, even though the exact same thing had already happened to you in Vegas six months earlier-- at a casino owned by the SAME company? And you didn't think that incident was even worth mentioning until almost the end of your "timeline?" Interesting...

1) don't spread your bet an absurd amount
2) throw the dealers up on bets
3) bet whatever side bet they have for table min

Proceed to count and you'll cut up any place for an extended amount of time.

Also, the second you get heat, bail after losing a crazy hand that a dealer pulls and make a comment like you've seen enough of that or something along the lines.

Good tips for counting in the 1990's.

My take of presenting a players club to the pit while card counting at blackjack. Too bad Joseph Stiers didn't use this advice before being busted at the Baltimore Horseshoe Casino. Maybe the CEO of the Horseshoe and the WSOP Mitch Garber will lift the WSOP ban for Stiers after getting wind of this video.

exactly.
either you won't fool anyone bc the side bets/tips are too low, or you won't have an edge bc the side bets and tips are too high. many people try absurd spreads but many others spread too low in shoe games.

also leaving after a ****ty crazy hand is insane when the count is still through the roof. if the count dropped down back to around 0 on the crazy hand then it makes sense.

that didnt ever work in any time frame. once the casino has had enough of you you had better just stay away. almost always you can feel the heat coming and its plain stupid to continue, as soon you get the axe and it follows you to other places as well.

I'm really curious what exactly happened at the Linq (like, what the manager said to you, how much info you gave him), because it seems obvious to me that this is what set off alarm bells at the Horseshoe in the first place. Even if he was "nice about it," that doesn't mean he didn't flag you in the system. They probably put you down as a suspected team player, which is way worse in their eyes than a casual small stakes counter.

I'm also starting to believe that you really are just a casual player, and not a card counter at all. Because if you had taken the time and energy to learn how to actually count cards, it doesn't make sense that you'd have no clue about the whole "discretion" concept. Literally every book in the subject has at least a chapter about how to deal with being backed off. Didn't your card counting friend from Vegas give you any tips?

I'm pretty sure even the general public is aware of how casinos treat suspected advantage players. I mean, everyone saw the movie "21," right?

I am as well. I'm guessing that the card counter you were sitting next to wasn't a random guy, but you were friends or at least got friendly at the table. Any possibility you might have just happened to mention anything about card counting at the table while the "oblivious" dealer was actually paying attention and spoke to the floor manager before his next down?

Receiving offers doesn't mean you're in the clear. Security in a casino has a completely separate reporting structure than the rest of the organization. It may take a while for them to coordinate. That's the charitable view. They could have also been trying to lure you in to formally notify you that you're banned. The police years ago would mail out offers for free TVs to the last known address of wanted criminals. The criminals would come in, show ID, be taken through a door and arrested.

yup - Edge play at table games is nowhere near as hard as getting, and then keeping the action - I know guys who have made fortunes from advantage casino play and they are all masters of the soft skills.

There is no great injustice here inflicted by the casino, they pay people to spot and remove advantage gamblers on the table games and this is exactly what they have done here. This is there business, everyone knows it, they don't remotely hide it and anyone who has ever seen the movie "21" really should know this is risky business.

If he was counting at an "ametuer level" he'd have been spotted pretty easily and probably pretty quickly by even the most dis-interested pit boss, and making a fuss about getting sussed would have done him zero favours also.

I do have some sympathy for what has happened to him but he has been very, very naive

Google: new jersey casino trespassing

They don't need to provide a reason to ban you.

How did this thread/post get overlooked. This isn't the first banning or whatever for this guy. Seems to be a pattern.

This I have been banned from playing blackjack from many casinos, they all allow me to play poker

1.) Because I did not test the limits of the ban, well i did in once instance by playing at a sister property and playing dumb to the ban, they were not thrilled terribly rude and stated empathically that i can not play blackjack at any of their properties

2.) I never counted (blatantly) at Caesers. Why? Because Caeasers over reacts and they have a quick triggger and if you take some of their money they could be liable to just ban you from their properties which mean no WSOP. So in short counting at Caesers properties is suicide.

What happened to the thread started by Joe (user name: NNNobodYYY) explaining his side of the story? Did he request to get it deleted for legal purposes? Can't locate it.

I think the crowd of responses was generally against him, so he probably just deleted it since it didn't turn into a big sympathy thread like he probably thought it would.

All of his posts since Sept 2014 have been deleted.

Was wondering the same thing. Legal purposes? i doubt it. He claims not to play BJ that often, but he admits to card counting, being friends with card counters, and playing BJ virtually everytime he enters a casino.

He was kicked out of the casino. He claims that he doesn't need/want to play blackjack, he just really wants to play poker. But every time he goes back, he plays BJ.

It's hard to feel sorry for the guy when he posts " the Full Story" and it seems like he is lying.

Ha, he got soft because a lot of the posters here were against his whining.

Could he delete an entire thread though? He can't delete others posts? I thought he could only delete his own comments, and it would require a mod to delete the actual thread.

I'm not sure if you are the thread creator if you can subsequently delete it.

Also, perhaps WSOP/Caesars swooped in and peddled their influence to squash it. I've noticed some threads suddenly disappear before, like going to the metaphorical holes in the Vegas desert. Recently there was a thread about Harry Reid retiring which got, deservedly, negative commentary about Harry, the thread was gone a day later.....

If anyone needs the thread I have screenshots of the entire first page including all his posts and I have a text transcript of the entire thread

I also have the video he posted in case that gets taken down.

TheFly; it appears that thread creators can't delete threads; at least I tried and can't delete a thread I started in thr past.

numberonedonk; thx, but I don't need those. I was just curious. Being nosy I guess. Lol

I asked in the mod forum why it was deleted. Apparently he requested(a mod) for it to be deleted and it was granted. Doubt we'll ever know more than that.

I really would have more sympathy for the guy if ALL he was trying to do was play poker. But he keeps mentioning going to the BJ tables, even though he says he is not really a BJ player.

It just seems a little petulant.

Whre are the real horse bookmakers who hold action? thought they were all on the feed and bets were going into the pool. I know for a fact that you can't even make a house Quinella at a Caesars or MGM property.