So the 1000th kid gets GTOW, joins BBZ/RYE/hires coaches... He imagines dreams of 200k a year or 300k a year and screwing the real life slugfest of waking up at 5am to work at Hertz Rent A Car for a reliable 75k + Medical + Retirement and working about 25% of the actual time and messing around the rest.

The reality is whether you choose the cash game approach or the MTT approach in the end ultimately you're facing a more Predatory poker world on-line at least. You're facing foreign countries with collusion/RTA/BOTs/Chipdumping/etc... and people working a hell of a lot harder than you cause their options aren't as good as Hertz.

So you go out and do the live scene and you grind out 70k or 90k. It's an experience. After expenses you're likely making less than Hertz but you're free to live The ~

poker dream 2024?


Is this the reality for more mid stakes pros in this day and age? I asked a genuine 20somethings world known crusher and he said yes. I ask you? And who works harder Mr. Hertz or Mr. Crusher?

If you have all the time available that a full time job takes away, poker shouldn't be that hard.

Pretty accurate. But the guy at Hertz definitely works harder. Hahaha.

I think it was ishter who said that the games he play the most (GG mid-highstakes) got more polarized nowadays, so most regs are playin similar styles and you don't see the bad reg that much anymore, and you have fish. With so many tools available, you can guess the why.

Never really took the time to quantify how much I make, vs regs or vs fish, but I remember a known ssnl zoom crusher on stars, from 6 years ago, saying 15% of the regs were really good and the rest were really meh. I can only imagine that levelling the reg field and making any reg war breakeven pre rakeback, assuming we're constantly working hard on our games, should hit hard on our bottom line for sure.

With all that said, the fact so many people use "safe" jobs, no matter how crappy (lol Hertz), instead of entrepreneurship, finding something new, risking a lot or everything to get real rich, tells a lot about mediocrity. There is almost a contradiction in assuming everyone playing poker nowadays is a very ambitious s.o.b working really hard to become the strongest shark on earth, while as soon as you get out of it, the alternative is being a tame average joe making middle class income

Making 6 figures is definitely possible in poker still, but there comes a certain point where if you reach that level you are better off focusing your energy/resources into other ventures where you can be more profitable with half the stress. Poker is brutal, even if you're a solid winner whether it be live or online. Sitting in the casino 40hrs+ a week is terrible for your body/circadian rhythm (honestly not talked about enough) + eating mostly unhealthy casino food/slugging caffeine (most fulltime players are taking horrible care of their bodies not to mention the constant elevated heart rate and dopamine rush the game gives you ). Online has it's own problems you are constantly alone, your "friends" are still trying to constantly beat you and the edges are smaller + all of the RTA/bot issues.

Played fulltime for 3 years mostly online (still traveled a decent bit and had stretches of 50hrs a week live play) making 200k average in a fenced in USA pool, and have moved on to other ventures and dropped poker completely for a couple months and everything in my life improved overnight. Can't imagine how much harder it is to play non fenced in pools, especially now where it seems there is 0 game integrity on the global sites.

hahaha yes

Well not everyone lives in America. In my country not even the president earns that 200-300k a year and Herz worker would earn about 20k a year. Making 100k+ a year in my country tax free is still a dream. Health care is free etc.

I got to online high stakes in the current environment and 2023 has been my most profitable year by far.
I can't tell you what you can or can't achieve but I can tell you it's possible and I see people doing it all the time.
Some sites are unplayable (Iggy) due to bots etc, but a lot of sites feel relatively clean from what I can tell.
Games are getting tougher, but the masses won't ever get smarter or wiser. If you play like people played 10 years ago you will lose, but if you play like 10 years ago in 2024 you're extrmely lazy and shouldn't be rewarded for it, learning to play better gets easier for everyone at the same rate, so you just keep capitalising on every learning resource there is more than your opponents, like it's always been.

LOL Hertz is NOT paying 75k/yr

verified NLHE coach lmao

you lot are all delusional and have no idea what's coming in 2-3 years time you'll all be out of jobs unless you can trick rubes into paying you for coaching gl

There's more liquidity compared to 5 years ago and high stakes runs a lot more than 5 years ago. The regs are much better but it's easy for you to become better too.

If you have the right aptitude for poker and put in the time and effort, earning 100-200k/year is a very achievable outcome

It's very tempting for people to say the dream is dead when they personally can't make it themselves. They'll get very angry if they see someone making it too cause it takes away that resolution to the cognitive dissonance as to why that person made it and not them.

I worked for Enterprise Rent-a-Car coming out of college 25+ years ago. Made around 48K my first year, 70K my second year, and was on pace to make around 85K my 3rd year before I got tired of the corporate rat race and quit to play poker and get involved in some real estate opportunities. So yeah, making 75K at Hertz is easily attainable.

I always find it interesting when people automatically assume things because they attach a stigma to certain words, like rental cars, fast food places, Walmart or store names in general, etc. A lot of jobs, including rental car jobs have a sizable sales aspect to them, so you can make what you want (not talking about exact dollar figures) out of almost any sales job. Sure, if you are working the counter or sales register you aren't making much, but there are management and corporate opportunities pretty much anywhere that is not a small mom and pop shop.

Like the one poster said, why does everyone equate a mundane job as the alternative to playing cards? If you put the same effort, time, and entrepreneurship of trying to be a mid to high stakes grinder into non-poker employment opportunities, there are limitless things you can do and be involved in that can be high-paying, interesting, and enjoyable.

I'm sorry it didn't work out for you my friend, I'm not offended by you lashing out at me, I know it's not personal

Misconceptions about America for foreign poker players. We have a large swaths of land that are without much medical services/dentists/jobs and that cost not much. People live as they do in say country Belarus. For the millions that even make an average wage between 25-45k most would pay a great deal of that in food/rent and basic necessities and still be pretty broke if they have responsibilities. I know in rural Russia 400-700 USD is a living wage and therefore Poker is extremely appealing to a smart individual there. Though here we also have people in cities or wealthy locations that can make untold riches. Even in the backwater... I hear the world is all changing though, more expensive every day and higher wages. We're becoming all the same eventually! When I was a boy the thought of a Russian Poker Pro besting me at a game invented here would be heresy LOL

The stories are unreal, the success stories if believable are out of this world. It's good to hear from so many people that have succeeded or failed in the poker dream. It's amazing also their points of view I deeply thank each poster for taking the time for sharing their point of view. Every poker pro or grinder I speak with I always drill them on their life story and how they got into poker. I will pay to hear these stories cause they're not your run of the mill stories.

I remember being a boy of 19, opening my first business making Hertz level $ without even a high school education and barely able to function.

I love the fact that you all share such interesting stories! I always wonder if it's not some fate that drives us to such endeavors. Wish you all for success in whatever it is you choose in life! Deeply admire all of you!

This thread has is brought to you today by our sponsor, Hertz! Hertz is proud to offer a stable salary and benefits to failed professional poker players across America! Struggling with the poker grind? Apply today!

Does working at Hertz really pay $75k? That seems insanely high. What kind of job would that be—one that you describe as low stress with most of your work hours free to mess around and have fun with coworkers—and what kind of educational background is required for it? Is that what they pay someone who works the counter and pushes insurance and toll-program add-ons? Or is that like in the corporate office?

I think someone would be insane to turn down the opportunity for an easy and low-stress full time job like that, with good benefits and paid vacation, in order to grind poker. Pocket the cash from the day job and play as a side hustle.

The flip side of this assumption you highlight is how many excellent poker players are able, through talent and hard work, to eke out quite mediocre earnings of $75,000 a year playing poker…only to assume that they are masters of the universe who will be ticketed for millionaire status as world-beating entrepreneurs once they put phases two, three, and four of their life plan into effect. There’s a reason it works out that way for so very few of them. Young people in general, and young poker players in particular, tend not to fully appreciate yet just how difficult it is to dominate the real world.

All this Hertz talk and no one has posted this

Hahaha. Yeah I thought of that scene immediately when I first saw this thread...

One thing that I have noticed in all of these poker pro vs. standard career discussions is that people tend to make it out to be a binary choice when it doesn't have to be.

Most of the most successful poker players I know have something else going on to generate additional income. Some dabble in real estate, others have businesses, others have novel ways of making money like trading in collectibles, etc.

Sometimes it's difficult to tell who's actually beating the game in poker, and who's a whale making big money elsewhere, especially at higher stakes where there are many players who are generally competent and the traits that separate the winners can be more subtle.

making Poker a jay oh bee is the quickest way to unhappiness...

The meta now isn't making poker full time. It's making it a profitable side hobby, which it can be if you put in the work.

For some, the poker dream in 2024 is running your own private game or being invited to regularly play in home games with whales. For others, it’s being a poker influencer who plays on livestreams and creating vlogs to become poker famous, then profiting off the rakeback and promos. Grinding at the casino just isn’t as glamorous as it was 15 years ago.