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News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views, and gossip |
09-26-2014, 08:33 AM
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#1
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adept
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,012
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Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
http://t.co/YwZ0mbpD4Y
Seems PokerSnowie isn't the best
Anyway I'm concerned about its online applicability... Should we fear the end of online poker ?
Last edited by Videopro; 09-26-2014 at 01:22 PM.
Reason: added working link
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09-26-2014, 08:55 AM
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#2
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journeyman
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: malta
Posts: 359
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
Probably the end of poker online as we know it... in few years time
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09-26-2014, 09:16 AM
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#3
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grinder
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 601
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
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09-26-2014, 10:35 AM
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#4
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newbie
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 24
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
The article is on the Cardplayer website, can't link to it for some reason.
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09-26-2014, 11:43 AM
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#5
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Zero Millions
Posts: 6,841
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
“I think by using one or two bet sizes humans can avoid signaling too much about the strength of their hand,“ Sandholm continued. “But the computer can use a larger number of bet sizes because it knows it isn’t giving away too much because it balances its bets. Another example is limping, by the way. Limping in on the button heads-up no-limit is often considered by humans as a novice thing to do, but the bot will do that.”
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09-26-2014, 12:42 PM
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#6
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adept
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,012
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
Quote:
Originally Posted by VP$IP
“I think by using one or two bet sizes humans can avoid signaling too much about the strength of their hand,“ Sandholm continued. “But the computer can use a larger number of bet sizes because it knows it isn’t giving away too much because it balances its bets. Another example is limping, by the way. Limping in on the button heads-up no-limit is often considered by humans as a novice thing to do, but the bot will do that.”
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Seems reasonable to me... What I'm missing?
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09-26-2014, 12:43 PM
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#7
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centurion
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 169
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
The only way to defeat bots over the long run is to play on a site like pokerstars that extensively monitors for bot users.
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09-26-2014, 12:47 PM
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#8
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: calling a spade a spade
Posts: 11,231
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
Quote:
Originally Posted by goose58
The only way to defeat bots over the long run is to play on a site like pokerstars that extensively monitors for bot users.
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This attitude of you'll be ok on Stars regardless is ridiculous. Even Stars admits that many acts of collusion are brought forth by players so you can't rely on any site for protection to catch all the problems. Being vigilant and paying attention at the tables is our best form of protection.
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09-26-2014, 01:10 PM
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#9
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adept
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,012
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
of course you are right, but you are missing a point imo...
Collusion and exploitable bots are somewhat detectable... How are you going to detect a GTO bot?
We need even stronger measures against and I think the ultimate measure is the ability to charge the user with fraud
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09-26-2014, 01:24 PM
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#10
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: calling a spade a spade
Posts: 11,231
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4-Star General
of course you are right, but you are missing a point imo...
Collusion and exploitable bots are somewhat detectable... How are you going to detect a GTO bot?
We need even stronger measures against and I think the ultimate measure is the ability to charge the user with fraud
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I agree... but to even start this process the online operators would have to ask that the policy (that benefits them financially) of not disclosing players screen names to get changed with their regulators. This would be the first step so people can see the scope of the damage. Then online operators would have to inform the authorities (once again this would hurt their bottom line) to actually charge anyone.
As it is now the bots pay good rake and if/when they are caught the websites get to keep all the money. From that current business model what incentive do they have to change?
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09-26-2014, 01:34 PM
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#11
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adept
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,012
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sect7G
As it is now the bots pay good rake and if/when they are caught the websites get to keep all the money. From that current business model what incentive do they have to change?
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PS is refunding players when they catch 'em. So the actual model is good but it could be better with the fraud charge.
Anyway this is very serious issue for the game... And for the Poker room business.
With the advance of technology we should worry most than ever
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09-26-2014, 01:40 PM
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#12
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veteran
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,753
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
I would gladly allow Pstars to keep ALL the money as it would incentivize them to catch cheaters/bots.
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09-26-2014, 01:42 PM
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#13
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: calling a spade a spade
Posts: 11,231
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4-Star General
PS is refunding players when they catch 'em. So the actual model is good but it could be better with the fraud charge.
Anyway this is very serious issue for the game... And for the Poker room business.
With the advance of technology we should worry most than ever
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Curious, what game type do you play Cash,SNG's,MTT's?
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09-26-2014, 01:43 PM
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#14
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: calling a spade a spade
Posts: 11,231
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
Quote:
Originally Posted by restorativejustice
I would gladly allow Pstars to keep ALL the money as it would incentivize them to catch cheaters/bots.
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Then what do u pay rake for?
People like you who aim and are content with the lowest branches in life aren't going to help online poker in the long run.
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09-26-2014, 01:50 PM
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#15
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adept
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 918
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
bots could be killed over night with one simple method the site has in its terms and conditions that they can access your camera during play. I know thats an invasion of privacy but i doubt the stars staff would want to perve on you been naked. I am sure we have all played naked at some point.
However its worth the sacrifice for the risk reduction simple random snaps through the computer camera taken without notice would verify human at the controls and the right human for that matter.
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09-26-2014, 02:00 PM
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#16
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adept
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,012
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
@Sect7G
SS cash games, yep maybe I'm worrying too much
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09-26-2014, 02:07 PM
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#17
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old hand
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Valis
Posts: 1,531
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
Waitaminute...
You guys play with your clothes ON?
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09-26-2014, 02:11 PM
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#18
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Zero Millions
Posts: 6,841
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
Don't forget that this is a heads-up bot only, and
In the last year they’ve worked full time, with super computing time spent on the program being somewhere between 1 and 2 million core hours.
So it is more like a view into the future. Does anyone doubt that computers will be able to outplay humans at any game in 100 years? You can plug your own number in place of the 100.
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09-26-2014, 02:14 PM
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#19
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banned
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 942
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeSilver
bots could be killed over night with one simple method the site has in its terms and conditions that they can access your camera during play. I know thats an invasion of privacy but i doubt the stars staff would want to perve on you been naked. I am sure we have all played naked at some point.
However its worth the sacrifice for the risk reduction simple random snaps through the computer camera taken without notice would verify human at the controls and the right human for that matter.
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The infringement of privacy vastly outweighs the rewards here, plus anyone can just sit infront of their camera or turn it off.
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09-26-2014, 02:15 PM
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#20
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banned
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 942
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
So....Tartaniumm7 vs WDG|Rider propbet?
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09-26-2014, 02:21 PM
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#21
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banned
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: @limonpoker
Posts: 5,470
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
5 years in the future people will look back at the horrible games available online now as the "good ol days" while pros with REAL poker skill (like billy baxter and abe mosseiri) use their energy to get invited to berry patches and print money. Learning to play poker is a waste of time kids. Take your aspergers medicine cuz making money in poker is gonna require talking to people and making contacts again very soon.
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09-26-2014, 02:31 PM
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#22
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NOT ... playing online poker :-/
Posts: 5,671
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
Quote:
Originally Posted by POW
So....Tartaniumm7 vs WDG|Rider propbet?
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I'd say more like Tartanium7 Vs Dnegs, should only take him a couple of weeks of study to figure him out.
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09-26-2014, 02:40 PM
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#23
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veteran
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: On the learning curve
Posts: 3,440
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sect7G
I agree... but to even start this process the online operators would have to ask that the policy (that benefits them financially) of not disclosing players screen names to get changed with their regulators. This would be the first step so people can see the scope of the damage. Then online operators would have to inform the authorities (once again this would hurt their bottom line) to actually charge anyone.
As it is now the bots pay good rake and if/when they are caught the websites get to keep all the money. From that current business model what incentive do they have to change?
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The policy is to protect privacy in public domain, they are obliged to report to their regulator and prosecuting authority even suspicions of cheating. This is a clear requirement within the new UKGC licence that they have applied for.
Collusion is clearly cheating, IMHO bot operation in contravention of the TOS is too so antone running a bot from the UK or against UK players MUST be reported to the UKGC who would have the power to prosecute the case.
Whether they would prosecute or not is another matter.
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09-26-2014, 02:41 PM
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#24
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adept
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 918
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
Quote:
Originally Posted by limon
5 years in the future people will look back at the horrible games available online now as the "good ol days" while pros with REAL poker skill (like billy baxter and abe mosseiri) use their energy to get invited to berry patches and print money. Learning to play poker is a waste of time kids. Take your aspergers medicine cuz making money in poker is gonna require talking to people and making contacts again very soon.
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few points firstly congratulations on showing that you know what others merely suspect.
secondly I don't take any forms of medications.
thirdly don't rule us out yet i have had thoughts similar to what the bot realized and could come out with similar things if i invested enough time.
fourthly sophisticated bots will not be available to the masses any time soon.
sites could find ways to program to stop them and my idea is something that might help but actual programming can to.
i guess just mup up for now and see what the future brings.
besides to my follow brethren dont fear casinos just remember hoodies and sun glasses stare at felt same hand movement every time pre organize chips dont talk to or befriend anyone only speak to announce action eg raise.
I have a strong history of winning live when i wear a hoody or cap with sunglasses. although i do bad without these.
they may think were weak but its simple biology we are superior in this jungle.
Aspergers Supremacy!!
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09-26-2014, 03:03 PM
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#25
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Zero Millions
Posts: 6,841
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Re: Poker Bot: 'A Nuclear Weapon For Poker'
Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeSilver
besides to my follow brethren dont fear casinos just remember hoodies and sun glasses stare at felt same hand movement every time pre organize chips dont talk to or befriend anyone only speak to announce action eg raise.
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Appropriate punctuation and capitalization would have helped you make your point here.
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