update #2
WEdnes,
Money in the bank. Hope they dont charge me again

04/06/11 Pmi 18.00
04/06/11 Pmi 18.00
04/06/11 Pmi 18.00

Should change the title. I ignored this thread but came back to it in the closed thread. Still have no idea what's going on though

The thread in Internet poker is much more clear and concise.

I looked at this thread only due to the five stars. Best of luck to everyone involved.

Holy...! Thanks for 5 starring this guys. Looks like there are no charges on my accounts even though PMI sounded really familiar. I'll keep an eye out and spread the word.

sorry. can anyone give cliffs?

Same here being getting random charges the last few weeks now I know what it is done with tilt

should everybody be concerned about this?

or just people who have deposited with checking account recently?

Haven't seen this yet on my statement and I check it daily. I write EChecks and they come up as "FTPayments" but this is a very serious issue, hope FTP has gotten move involved than they have been and intervened appropriately.

Own fault, at this point.. Should've closed your account after the 2nd hit..
Are u waiting for #4?

You have to call the number 888-875-8035 and dispute it. I called them because I had 3 seperate charges, 1 for the past 3 months for $22 each. I told them my name and last 4 of my account number, and the lady said that they were "already reversed" on 5 Apr, and that I should see them by next Tuesday, and if not, call back. However, I have the gut feeling she just reversed them when I called. It just seems reaaaaal shady and I have the feeling that if you wouldnt call, they would just keep it. So, please be proactive and get your money back. If you think about it, if they took $22 from even half of the players on FTP, each month, or just one time, the numbers would be insane! And if noone, noticed, someone just got real rich, real quick! Is it or isn't it FTP? Well, they are definitely not innocent! Add this to all the insanely-bad beats and unrealistic calls from "people," especially late in big-money tournaments to take me out when I'm big-stacked and holding an overly-dominating hand, on an almost-daily basis, and I will no longer be giving away my money to those crooks at FTP and probably wont be playing at all online anymore. Good luck!

-There is a company called PMI, which FTP was using as a third-party payment processor.

-At some point, PMI apparently went "rogue" and started withdrawing money from player's bank accounts that looked like deposits to FTP, but were not, essentially siphoning money from player's bank accounts.

- When first advised that one of their 3rd-party processors was illegally withdrawing funds, FTP's response was: "Sorry, we didn't authorize that, so we can't help you."

- According to some FTP reps, they are now looking into this. This possibly could be a major security breach or an inside job, or just a case of a bad processor going into business for themselves. By this point, it seems FTP is aware of the great numbers of their customers that were adversely affected.

- FTP has made no public statements, however, or warnings to their players to watch for fraudulent charges. Many 2 + 2 users are frustrated by this.

- There are other websites complaining about PMI. Many of the robbed were also FTP players, and it is unclear how many, if any, are aware of the threads on 2+2.

- If you are able to reach PMI, they will claim an "error" and reverse the charges. However, many people can't get through, and there are countless others who are not aware of threads like these and probably doing nothing.

- It is unclear atm if this affects non-US players

Is it also your position that with my new account -- that I never write a check or in any way expose my account number again?

The thread in Internet Poker has a great deal more information in it at this point, I think. I wish these could get stickied and merged...

But allow me to explain something: If you have ever written anyone a check, ever, you have given them enough information to scam you in exactly the way that PMI is doing now. Getting a new account might stop the current scammer from hitting you, but it's a hollow gesture.

Also, Mikal, simply closing an account isn't as simple as one phone call. I'd be faxing letters and making phonecalls for days to straighten out the rest of my banking, re-linking accounts at multiple bank, calling mortgage companies, contacting my own payroll department, my wife's, you name it.

I apologize for not having been smart enough to have maintained a separate high-risk bank account for online transactions. That's my fault indeed -- but your words of wisdom aren't particularly helpful at this point.

I was getting random charges, called the other day and funds reached my account today

This is a great point. If the bank cant block it, have them open a new account for you and transfer your funds to that and shut down the old account number.

The point here is about the people who have been charged and haven't noticed. Why have FTP customers not received an email helping them to notice if they were charged. Why is this being kept quiet?

The title of the other thread in Internet Poker said something like "PMI strikes again". So is this not the first time this has happened? Is this kind of bull**** standard if I should ever decide to deposit on FTP?

People who reached PMI (through the 888 number provided) have been told 2 separate things:

1. That it was a computer error
2. That is will be reversed by... 3 days from phone call

I was one of the first people who reported the PMI fraud. A computer error does not take place 3 months in arow. That is quite clear. Also, PMI has not returned the money to a single person. PMI says they were reimburse but I have not seen one person who says they were reimbursed by PMI, it has always been the bank.

Also, you forgot to mention that PMI has changed to PMI SALE to get around the account blocks many people put on their accounts. The accounts must be closed to prevent PMI from taking further funds.

3rd I was told by my bank that PMI is a shell for National Payment Provider based out of Indiana. I asked FT if this was one of their 3rd party processors and have not heard anything back (big surprise)

ftp the new UB?

please regulate online poker in the u.s. so we never have to play on ftp again. such a terrible ****ing site. worst customer service in the game and they really honestly do not give a **** about the average user. why don't lederer,ivey,ferguson, etc get more flak for how ****ty the site's customer service is? seriously any 2p2er that plays on a televised table should berate them for their monkey service. /rant

Now that FTP is aware of the issue, every penny that is stolen from here on in from people using their site (assuming that PMI did receive the account info from FTP) is their fault, directly.

I have to agree with Steve. By not informing their customers that there is a potential security breach, and by not informing all previous customers that have deposited by bank transfer they should be liable.

The immediate denial of any affiliation with PMI is understandable from the company's (FTP) perspective, and almost expected. However, I think FTP's range is going to be 100% denial whether or not they were indeed involved with PMI at this point. People have to remember that we have not received any official reports or any sort of proof (non-circumstantial proof) that incriminates FTP in any way.

I really hope people don't join the mob mentality and join the FTP bashing bandwagon without the facts.

Sean, I am not involved personally with the PMI issue, but I have stopped by to tell you how disappointed I am with your response.

This forum has paid literally millions and millions in rake and the best you can tell us is "WHOAH, this IS weird! I also called the number and I got nothing too! BYE". Bank information has been compromised and there is a very clear link to your site - you owe us much more.

Do you realize how much money companies pay to get any and all information their customers will give them? Or how much they would pay for a direct line of communication with their customers? We have literally one of the best, most well-organized forums on the internet, and we're begging to talk with you for free and this is how you interact with us. Its very disrespectful and that's always bad business.

I haven't been this insulted by FTP since they came up with 'black card' 3 months ago. "if you can ship us six figures a year in rake we'll give you a new support e-mail address that gets forwarded to the old one". Plus we'll spend $50 a person to courier you a ****ing METAL BLACK CARD! I really feel like a VIP now.

In lieu of my multi-entry tourney rant: you money grubbers are killing the games, stop 4xing every tourney on the schedule w/ 4x rake and pretending its "double guarantee" week. Stars should punch you in the face because youre killing their volume w/ junk. You guys came up w/ an ok idea - 4x your million and be done. You're getting very greedy.

In all seriousness, what do you guys do with our rake other than pay Keith Sexton $30/hr to breakeven at 5 cent/10 cent or randomly sponsor South Americans with internet who've played the main event?

This is obviously a silly rant, but I laugh to keep from crying. I've paid~350K in rake to you lifetime (lowball) and I'm so disgusted by how I've been treated by FTP. Stars is a lot further ahead of you guys than you think. The games are getting harder - your turn to step it up.

Oh, Rush is pretty cool. Bye.

This is incorrect. I, among others, received my money back from PMI - not my bank.

There's much more information now in the thread I started in Internet Poker.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...ts-now-1011278

I wish we could get these merged, (and the move-thread notice stickied) but this thread was here for 2 months before anyone really took note of it, so the Internet Poker thread (right next to the cashout problem threads) got plenty of attention this time -- thank goodness.

Less than a day later, there were no public update, but I shared this quick PM I got in the other thread.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...ts-now-1011278

I only caution that corporate lawyers have a very different idea than you and I do about what "soon" means.

I'll cross-post this, as someone else had other possible information about "PMI" in the other thread. I think that matches up.

EDIT: Ah, well, it was you who already posted it there. No need. It'd be nice to find independent verification of that though. Someone else did post what might be their 10-digit account ID (for purposes of blocking transfers).