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Old 01-11-2018, 09:01 AM   #26
PTLou
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

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Originally Posted by bulls_horn View Post
Wow, Op. Maybe go fire up Hendon before making a "Who's this Seidel guy, and how's he crushing these tournaments?" thread. You might as well go to Sports and post a "There's a possibility the Patriots will get to the SB this year" thread.

The guy's been a beast for many years. He's in the freaking HoF.
uhhhhh thats not really what I was talking about.

I was talking more about this.


How is that these GTO wizards, many of whom are in cliques to strategize about hands, who have been playing against Erik for years (with lots of HHs), yet still cant beat him.

best answer I've seen came very early ITT. maybe all these poker coaches , strat content not needed ? dunno.

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Originally Posted by StraightFlooosh View Post
PokerNews: What do you do that allows you to continue to compete with some of the best players in the world? Do you actively study the game?

Seidel: You know, I haven't done as much work as I really need to. I feel like I really fell behind in that regard. One of the handicaps that I have, maybe there's some advantage as well, is that I don't really have a whole lot of structure to my game.

Do you think you adapt better than most players?

I'm guessing that has to be true because I don't know how I'm going to play. I don't even think I know how to play really, I just go and try to figure it out while I'm there [laughs]. I think, particularly in no limit, if you know how to play, you're probably doing it wrong because I just think there's a big creative element to it. So much has to do with what the exact situation is rather than trying to impose your own play on somebody else.

Last edited by PTLou; 01-11-2018 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:16 AM   #27
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

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Originally Posted by persianpunisher View Post
His impeccable reads



How much was Seidel's river shove? I assume the pot was around 250k. Chan said he bluffed off his money but he had top pair.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:50 AM   #28
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

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How much was Seidel's river shove? I assume the pot was around 250k. Chan said he bluffed off his money but he had top pair.
Hard to know for sure. 167 entrants, and I think starting stack was 10k back then, so a total of 1.67M chips in play. According to the full length video, Baldwin says they're about even stacked before the start of the hand, although this was edited, so it's not clear when exactly Baldwin says this. Maybe Seidel started with around 800k. So maybe he shipped about 675k into 250k?

Chan just fastrolled the nuts before Seidel could show what he shoved with, so Chan probably just assumed he was bluffing, as he had been bluffing a lot according to Chan.
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:07 PM   #29
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

Just checked his Hendon. His first cash was for 280k in 1988. His most recent cash was for 260k in Jan of 2018. 30-years of consistency.

You wonder if he has a little bit of Tom Brady in him. He was the 'fish' in the Rounders scene with Chan. Trying to prove to the world he isn't.

Seidel is just a smarter dude. None of the pros wanted Moneymaker to win.(EGO thing I'm sure) But Seidel saw the big picture. He said no you want Moneymaker to win. If he does, we'll all become Millionaires.
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:24 PM   #30
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

Variance
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Old 01-11-2018, 03:01 PM   #31
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

He's really smart and very good at poker.

The End.
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Old 01-11-2018, 05:14 PM   #32
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

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Variance
Probably the correct answer. How many tournaments do you think he's played in his career?

His first cash was in 1988, so he's been playing for 30 years now. Lets say a fair estimate is 100 tournaments a year, which is 3k total tournaments...
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Old 01-11-2018, 06:51 PM   #33
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

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He's really smart and very good at poker.

The End.
This, guy is a genius. He gets no love either, despite being a beast longer than 99% of posters here have been alive.
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:29 PM   #34
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

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Originally Posted by RichGangi View Post
He's really smart and very good at poker.

The End.
This describes basically the entire crew of high roller regs.

Actually if you look at success in poker, I'd wager you can directly correlate it with intelligence. Everyone at the top of poker appears to 1. Have a great work ethic (I'm sure tons of players do) 2. Be very smart (95th percentile+).

They're all a bunch of 130+ IQ geniuses who are brilliant at math.
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:45 PM   #35
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

Even Johnny Chan, just a few years ago, admitted that he could no longer beat Erik Seidel. Thanks to the movie Rounders, it will be the greenhorn Seidel that the general public will always be familiar with.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:26 PM   #36
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

Running hot in a handful of tournaments means basically nothing.
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:06 PM   #37
RichGangi
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

Yes, that is all he has done.

LOLNVG
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:09 PM   #38
KennyJPowers
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

A mix of variance over a tiny sample and a lot of skill.
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:47 PM   #39
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

duhh his AK beats AQ, aka EXTREMELY lucky
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:58 PM   #40
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

His first cash came in 1988, and he's done extremely well over his 30 year career. He's been crushing poker before the majority of 2p2ers have even been alive. (I know that is the case for me at least, and im on the older side imo)
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:01 PM   #41
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

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IIRC Seidel was one of the very few players (or maybe the only player) who would refuse to show his hole cards on TV tables.
If you mean not showing the camera his cards during play I honestly cannot ever remember him doing this. I looked up 10 random hands and the only hidden cards were in one hand vs Benefield where he got coolered by a higher river straight and it was Benefield who hid his hole cards from the camera.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSNiZNAT9tc

If you mean not showing after the play's dead he's not the only one and it's good discipline.
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Old 01-15-2018, 10:46 AM   #42
stooks99
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

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Originally Posted by harkin View Post
If you mean not showing the camera his cards during play I honestly cannot ever remember him doing this. I looked up 10 random hands and the only hidden cards were in one hand vs Benefield where he got coolered by a higher river straight and it was Benefield who hid his hole cards from the camera.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSNiZNAT9tc

If you mean not showing after the play's dead he's not the only one and it's good discipline.
I can't remember it ever being a regular occurrence, but I do specifically remember a USPC from the early 2000s where they actually installed 2 cameras at Seidels seat to try and get his hole cards. I'm thinking it was 2003, when Toto Leonidas won, but I'm not 100% on that.
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Old 01-15-2018, 11:28 AM   #43
Barry Urinstein
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

The moment I learned that Daniel Negreanu hates Erik Seidel I became a huge fan of Erik. If you look at his play in older shows you can see how he was very much ahead of his time. He seems to have rock solid fundamentals coupled with a strong intuition. As a stupid kid I thought “Erik Seidel is the most boring man on the planet”, but today I know he’s an endboss, pure class, amazingly controlled and restrained.
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Old 01-15-2018, 12:18 PM   #44
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

He is a huge nit who defends himself well aginst gto bots and runs good obv.
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Old 01-15-2018, 12:44 PM   #45
PTLou
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

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Originally Posted by Barry Urinstein View Post
The moment I learned that Daniel Negreanu hates Erik Seidel I became a huge fan of Erik. If you look at his play in older shows you can see how he was very much ahead of his time. .
Both of those statements I found myself agreeing with.
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Old 01-15-2018, 01:23 PM   #46
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

Hear Johnny's explanation @ 2:22:

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Old 01-15-2018, 02:04 PM   #47
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

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Originally Posted by Barry Urinstein View Post
The moment I learned that Daniel Negreanu hates Erik Seidel I became a huge fan of Erik.
It couldn't be something as weak as all-time winnings could it? I guess ES is creeping up on Kid Poker and he's won $20 million since 2010.

It might have something to do with politics, DN's political knob goes to 11.

If it's not something stupid like that and the animosity is non-winnings poker-based, I'd love to hear the background.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Urinstein View Post
If you look at his play in older shows you can see how he was very much ahead of his time. He seems to have rock solid fundamentals coupled with a strong intuition. As a stupid kid I thought “Erik Seidel is the most boring man on the planet”, but today I know he’s an endboss, pure class, amazingly controlled and restrained.
I know many people hate it but I could watch Seidel, Antonius, Durr, Ivey, Luckychewy, Holz, Colman etc. all day just for the "solid fundamentals coupled with a strong intuition". Probably because my game is mostly intuition; I'm not smart enough to apply poker theory.
They aren't going Hellmuth/Matasow/Tony G/J Gold tedium nor the even worse unearned Kahn/Kassouf pla-skool exhibitionism and I know people think that's poker's future/good for TV blah blah blah but the only time I like watching loud a$$hats playing on TV is to see them get pwned.
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Old 01-15-2018, 02:25 PM   #48
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

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Originally Posted by harkin View Post
It couldn't be something as weak as all-time winnings could it? I guess ES is creeping up on Kid Poker and he's won $20 million since 2010.

It might have something to do with politics, DN's political knob goes to 11.

If it's not something stupid like that and the animosity is non-winnings poker-based, I'd love to hear the background.

.
My understanding is that it stemmed from ES being friends with Annie Duke. I heard him say on a podcast this week that they were over it and were friendly in the rare times they are around each other.
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Old 01-15-2018, 06:15 PM   #49
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

classic hand if you haven't seen it

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Old 01-16-2018, 02:38 AM   #50
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Re: Please explain Seidel's greatness in High Rollers

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Originally Posted by persianpunisher View Post
His impeccable reads

Chan owned him so hard. I think the pressure just got to Eric there.
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