all stars zoom no ratholing

where are you from? do you get freezes/dscs/"no connection" table errors?

you should focus more on the 'no ratholing' part lololol

starting to sound a little bit unhinged bro

sometimes i get table/connection errors yea. I'm from canada and only play from canada

as i read every post in this thread all i can say is Good Job pokerstars (no sarcasm )

don't think u filtered for 6 to 6 players.

we can clearly see a pattern here that the zoom games are tending to be rigged towards people who play less tables, Id imagine the dealing algorithm is very complicated to balance out especially when play shifts from in between 3 and 6 handed and you are holding multiple tables, I've noticed this multiple times on partypoker where the shift from 5 to 6 handed or vice versa would just be you ending up paying the SB twice in a row or missing out on BTNs or whatever.

This is fake guys and is distraction from the real cheating that these sites do. 2+2 removes posts about RNG is rigged or that someone is a super user but then they allow this and even promote it?? This is obviously just a distraction from the real issues. Don't fall for this people.

exactly, covid is a hoax!!

yup we agree on that

No i didnt filter. My post wasn't implying anything is wrong.

am I being trolled here?

thread seems troll, move?

Why the **** would you post unfiltered bro can anyone confirm that this doesn't happen if you don't reset stacks???

My advice- whatever you do, don't sitout after 1 or 2 orbits. Give the algorithm a chance to balance.

Although the discussion is over, it is interesting to re-read it))

I fixed this by playing 500 hands straight up no resetting stack to 100bb. Then I take a 5 min break.

There is actually a pretty simple explanation for this - I have confirmed it works this way on the WPN equivalent games. Haven't read this thread to see if anyone posted it yet.

Each table of fast fold you are playing is tapping in to several "sessions", not just a single session. This is how they can immediately seat you at another table every time you press fold. Therefore if you hit sit out at next big blind, the next session you are taken in to that puts you in the big blind seat will sit you out.

That means if you're in 6 sessions on that table for example, and on the other 5 sessions your last position was somewhere between MP and BB, you would not get to play those (SB through MP) hands you paid the BB for - or if you were last in BB in a session you would not pay the SB.

Technically it does mean you're losing EV since when you sit out, you paid blinds for several positions you didn't get to play. There really is no way to quantify the lost EV 100% accurately though since nobody knows what the results of those hands would have been.

Instead what should happen when you want to stop playing is you should get the options currently available, plus to sit out after all sessions are exhausted (i.e. you play out every position you already paid the blind for). Another option could be to credit back some portion of the blinds you paid based on the blinds divided by the # positions you didn't get to play. Definitely inferior to the first option, because it would cost the site money.

filtered for 6 to 6 plrs.
i do rathole/sit out nxt bb @125bb. i also do get discon quite often.
seems fine nevertheless.

Based on this if I use sit out next hand instead of sit out next big blind, go for a short break, but then I come back and rejoin the pool without closing the table, am I losing EV and missing positions I have paid for or no?

You seem to be getting a lot more EP, MP, CO and BTN seats than you have in the blinds, so you are one of the accounts that is gaining EV unfairly at the expense of others that have posted the opposite results in this thread. In that sample you have almost 200 more BTN's than BB's, and your CO, MP and EP are even higher than your BTN allocation.

For some reason you looked at your data and thought: Am I losing out with seat distribution in any way -> No -> Therefore everything is fine.

Instead you should have approached it with the mindset: Am I losing out or gaining with seat distribution in any way -> Yes, I am gaining EV and this is unfair on my opponents -> Therefore everything is not fine.

The translation of this post: ''Yes, the system of fast fold poker is flawed and it unfairly affects some players at the expense of others due to the way it has been programmed. However it is ok as there is a simple explanation for it, so yeah, keep on getting scammed by the system folks, at least we understand the mechanics of the process behind it so we know why we are losing EV.''

In response to your sentiment, I think regs in these threads are upset because there should be no imbalance at all, or if there has to be a negative imbalance, it goes towards the players that bust and do not complete orbits, (as their actions create any potential imbalance in the first place), just like it works on the regular tables that are dealt out properly, where regs will indeed get dealt less in the blinds than the BTN and CO over time. The current method of dealing hands in fast fold poker environments is flawed and not fit for purpose as it is stealing EV from regs who are just engaging with the system fairly and correctly. There is no justification for this and it only remains in place as it benefits casual players with their money incorrectly lasting longer than it should, and the site raking more coin as a result. If it worked to benefit regs, then believe me, it would be fixed ASAP.

That isn't what I was saying at all. I was just explaining the reason why this is happening and what a better system would be to correct it. I did mention that people ITT are 100% correct that they're losing EV.

It's also true as I said before, it's hard to put a 100% accurate dollar amount to how much EV any one person has lost. It would be a complete cluster**** trying to get that right. The best way would be to figure out how many hands a player missed in each position & their average profit per hand. Obviously for most players it's going to be a loss, not profit, so imagine the losing players whining if a site retroactively went back and gave money to winning players. Let alone if they took money back from the losing players which they would have lost if they played those hands, probably not even legal at this point for them to take money back. Highly doubtful sites are even keeping track of this in the first place, beyond storing HH for a short time period. I can't imagine them doing the honors system (going off players own records...lol)


I don't think it's some conspiracy against the players either, just an oversight due to lazy / not fully thought through programming. I am not saying it's okay that this happened just that it's probably too late to fix what has already happened and all that can be done is to fix the system.

Can't 100% say for certain because I don't know if you're kept in the sessions once you sit out, but if you are kept in the sessions you'd avoid losing EV until you are removed from the sessions (maybe if you sit out too long or actually close your tables)

Adding to my last post in response to Fast Fold Poker, I don't see how the site benefits from this at all. The sites are losing rake by these hands not being played, they don't "steal EV" from hands not being played. Recs may benefit a small bit though, since most recs are not winning players they are losing every time they play a hand (probably with the exception of maybe AK,QQ+) no matter what position they are in.

I am surprised that you don't see how the sites benefit from this.

If we take a good reg that is winning in the zoom pools at say 3bb/100 at $100NL if he was dealt approximately equal seating across each position. Then his win rate might change to 2.7bb/100 when making this player play in the OOP seats more often than he should.

These extra IP seats go elsewhere to a fish, and he makes a deposit of $100 and he should normally go bust in 90 hands with his standard of play if he had equal seating distribution. However instead he lasts 100 hands because he gets to play IP more often than he should and is able to make slightly better but still heavily losing decisions etc.

Now the reg in question should have made $3.00 for those 100 hands that he played while that fish was in the pool, but instead he only wins $2.70. That extra money has got to go somewhere and it isn't in the fish account who has completely busted his roll. The extra $0.30 ends up in the sites' hands for getting to rake 10 extra hands that they weren't entitled to rake as the fish should have busted sooner if the game had been dealt equally and fairly. Those 10 extra hands should never have happened but they did happen and the rake machine was not turned off for them.