Why are some people so focused on whether or not Annie Duke ever used "God mode" to her advantage? Or if Freddie Deeb ever knowingly took part in Hamilton's "God mode" sessions? i personally don't believe they did, but that doesn't make them any less guilty in my eyes.

If they really cared about their reputations, and the poker community, they would have walked out on the company the moment they became aware of any serious issues. Arguing that you were given assurances that all is well or on the way to being fixed isn't enough. It's not as if Duke, Deeb or Hellmuth had any control over or real knowledge of what was happening internally at UB. How then could they give the players guarantees that the site was fine? Why would they, if nothing else, risk their reputations (essentially their livelihoods) on something they had no control over? Obviously, it's greed and self-interest. Maybe being greedy isn't a crime and it's probably not wrong to look after yourself first, but when that involves the deception of others then it's definitely something for which they should be held accountable. In this instance being held accountable could really only mean being shunned by the poker community (sites, poker media, playing community etc).

Btw, on the previous pages someone was arguing that Hellmuth was also a victim because he stood to make a lot of money in the long run representing UB, and that the company's downfall robbed him of that opportunity. What's closer to the truth is that had Hamilton not been scamming players for millions the company would possibly have gone down earlier. The fact other (profitable) companies, in which Hellmuth has shares, were set up with the stolen money means Phil has profited at every turn in this whole story.

I never played on UB so it's no sweat off my testicles, but I wonder if those who were cheated could (collectively) hire a lawyer to represent them on a contingency fee basis, get certified as a class, and bring a class action lawsuit against Phil Hellmuth, Annie Duke, and this Pierson fellow? If the amount of money stolen is in the $50 million neighborhood, there's probably a lawyer (or lawyers) that might take the case.

As with most class action settlements, the individual plaintiffs would wind up receiving a relative pittance (after the lawyers take their cut), but the treat from a class action - whether successful or not - would be the pleasure of watching Phil and Annie having to spend inordinate amounts of their time (and their money) paying lawyers to fight the action. Heck, it would make it that much harder for the great Phil Hellmuth to win another bracelet if he's having to spend a lot of time giving depositions and huddling with lawyers.

Come on boys. This deserves some love!!

Love it!!

That's only because he was caught up talking about his great reading abilities.

100% spot on great post totally agree with everything you said.

100% bullchit----

I find it hard to believe that everyone knew and used the "God" mode at UB and Phil knew nothing? Come on, wake up people!!!!!!!!!!!!

Phil was a beneficiary of the God Mode at UB - he made MILLIONS!!!!!! Russ transfered him MILLION

Phil should pay back some of the money to people who got robbed at UB.

Phil stayed with UB becuz he thought it would be a better chance of players getting their money back. Players didn't so shouldn't Phil feel some burden of returning some of his ill-gotten gain from staying with UB? Afterall, he did get paid with players' money.

Who is the brains behind UB who ran off everyone's money?

edit: wiki mentions someone named Scott Tom

Kind of weird that Phil and Annie jumped ship right before the DOJ thing and UB stole the money.

I don't think Phil cheated but he def knew some of the shady things going on.

I don't think Phil and Annie jumped ship. I think UB could no longer afford their services and they were let go. Not sure if/how/why Phil and Annie could/should have made that public, but I think if most of the player base knew they couldn't afford either they may have gotten their money off ASAP.

I believe Phil. He has never lied to the poker community for his own gain before so why should he start now? And Phil if you're reading this you were right, the Phil Hellmuth Mr.Bubble Bubble bath is the best bath I've ever taken and I know you had nothing to do with the double charge on my credit card.

Why should he start now? You really can't think of a good reason why to start now (assuming he hasn't in the past)?

Was Phil Hellmuth Unloved (And Had No Friends) As a Child?

I sent an email to a poker buddy of mine suggesting that he listen to this week's Pokercast. I received this amusing reply.

<begin rant>

Alan:

It is pretty simple to me. I have always thought of PH as someone that no one liked in his childhood because he was such an a**h*le. He just seemed like a kid who couldn't play sports but wanted to be liked so he would do anything to get friends. Now, with poker and the cash cow that UB was he could buy friends. I remember one time on HSP he said to one player that he would not let him be in his grid where he could get in on the video games about poker. Wow, PH and his threats. Love me and I will help you make money. Hate me and I won't. The old, "It is my ball and I can take it and go home." PH must not of had much love at home which drove him to marry a shrink who probably has her own shrink and talks about why she stays with PH.

In my opinion he is as big a thief as Howard Lederer, Chris Ferguson, etc. But, by not coming clean he feels he still has love. I couldn't whore myself out to be his friend even if he gave me a million dollars a year to do so. The entire thing stinks and until I am convinced that online poker is on the up and up I will never play there again. By on the up and up I mean that someone who has authority and is not a thief and can see their servers and their entire operation to make sure it is run right. This would involve our JOD having their own lock and key to the server operation which could only be opened by them. If a site needed to be worked on they would have to have a JOD member there to open the door for them. Until then, the suckers can play but I will keep my money in my pockets. You can feel free to post this on 2+2.

<end rant>

The comments toward the end regarding online poker not being on the "up and up" reflect the cumulative damage these individuals have done towards efforts to get internet poker legalized (and regulated) here in the United States. Nearly all of these internet poker sites, (with the notable exception of Poker Stars which has had their own "security problems" ... remember Nick Grudzein and his cheating buddy?), have been tainted by scandal. All this corruption and outright criminality has surely been noticed by folks like Bob Goodlatte and Spencer Bachus. (If anti-poker members of Congress aren't aware of these scandals, they probably will be as soon as Scott Bell comes out with his documentary.)

If Caesar's Entertainment, Steve Wynn, Gary Loveman, et al. sincerely want internet poker legalized and completely aboveboard (like most of their other gaming businesses) they can start by demonstrating to members of Congress that they're serious (as in heart attack serious) about not tolerating "shady characters" in or around their properties or sullying their brands (and their reputations) with their presence. How do they do that? By instituting life time bans against Phil Hellmuth, Annie Duke, Howard Lederer, Chris Ferguson, Russ Hamilton and all of these "pros" who had any association with these crooked poker sites. (By a "life time ban," I mean these folks aren't allowed to set foot on their properties - they are persona non grata.) By banning these folks for life, they would demonstrate (in a very noticeable manner) to the Government and gaming regulators that they will run their "internet operations" exactly as they run their B&M operations - if they are entrusted with the privilege.

Will Caesar's and Wynn Resorts go all out to get internet poker legalized? Will they take the first step by permanently banning these individuals who have been associated with crooked operators? I have my doubts ... In fact, considering all that has transpired since Black Friday, the major Las Vegas B&M operators are content with the status quo. If internet poker in the United States [eventually] gets legalized - or never gets legalized - it probably doesn't matter to them either way. "Poker" has never been a big revenue generator for the B&Ms - not to the extent that slot machines and the other table games generate profits. The whole point of "Black Friday" (from their perspective) was simply to get these sites shut down - to eliminate the competition. In that they succeeded admirably.

How are Phil, Chris (jesus), and Howard any different then Phil. I think sir you are wrong IMHO (uneducated as yours for certain) but all these players are in a similiar situation




If this happened in Football baseball there would be lifetime bans


Ban all players involved in these situations from
all

WPT and WSOP events for ever and make a statement that says if you do this in the future your career is over !~

I stick by my guilty till proven innocent.

I wonder if PH used the God Mode on Phelps? Someone said there was some stuff in the Makar files posted about Phelps?


Found this old tweet from Aug, 23 2010.

phil_hellmuth @phil_hellmuth 23 Aug
Crazy!! 2 things at once: I chip leader in @ultimate_bet UBOC event & playing side game in Vegas casino w Michael Phelps! Laptop in my lap!

and this one on 12/30/2010

phil_hellmuth @phil_hellmuth 30 Dec
Making a BIG move...leaving UB. Truly lots of great memories, but it's time to move on..****tual decision...Looking forward to BRIGHT future!

Sorry, this is the part where I differ quite a bit on what "ability" is in poker. Stu Ungar has 5 bracelets (in small fields when players sucked, but whatever), but all the money he won from poker tournaments, he lost from poker cash games or other gambling (though I guess he saved a little for coke). If winning money is the ultimate metric of poker achievement (which it is), then to me, bracelets don't mean dick if you lose it all in the same type of games you won it from, and end up with a lifetime ROI ~0%.

But if you want to argue about that, we can continue in this thread instead:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/view-great-poker-players-dont-go-broke-1328087/

Translation: We have looted all of the player funds out of the company and I have sold all of my shares. There is nothing left to steal. We are operating on new deposits and there just isn't enough left to pay me to wear this dumb jersey anymore. I should handle bad beats better now knowing that I bought in with your money :-)

+1

Con Artists (Big time Gamblers) stay with the con forever. Even when they are dead! Not one of them will ever admit to knowing or doing anything wrong. Some one else is always the guilty party, they are always victims just like you!

Grunching

So it didn't piss PH off when the company went belly up on BF and walked away with millions from all players' accounts. But hearing that they hid things from him and superused to steal from a few players, well, that's just too much. JFC.

Go back through this thread and look at ElevenGrover's posts. In one, he states PH allowed UB to use 30% of HIS shares/pay/money, (I think it was shares), to pay back players with, even though he had nothing to do with the thievery. Eleven asks, Why would he allow them to take 30% if he had nothing to do with stealing it?

That's a good question PH should answer,IMO.

He's got something to hide !!!

Or,

Maybe he feels absolved now, since he allowed them to take 30% ?

Well to play devils advocate here - if refunds weren't made there is a good chance the shares quickly become worthless.