Ignoring ICM my pre-flop solves say that Q4o is a low-frequency 3bet to 300k (PH made it 350k)

I indicated that both his actions are probably losing, just not horrendously enough to warrant the social media blitz. That was the point

And ICM doesn't apply to him, actually it's reverse ICM, or adjusted ICM. Like double the first prize money and run the numbers, he highly values the trophy

Stop nitting 3%.

It wasn't exactly 2.5:1 so he only needs 28.7% ... nitting 1.7%

After looking at the stacksizes from the original post assuming now that Foxen was opening wide but also probably had quite a few open jams in that range in this spot from the button with consideration to final table ICM and the stacks.

The future game for Phil Hellmuth is sort of **** if he folds here. He'll just hand over more ammunition to the clear chip leader Foxen as well as face the SB next hand off 9bb's as now the shortstack at the table. It's a **** spot after he raises that much of his stack to that size. Probably a close fold even considering future game but future game and the play ability of his stack going forward increase the likelihood of a call being possibly the better option.

Side note I'm not in the Tony G is cool camp or whatever but I think what he does is way more acceptable than what Phil Hellmuth does at the table or atleast I respect it more than what Phil Hellmuth does at the table. Phil Hellmuth has a history of sore losing and berating amateurs. What Tony G does at the table is more similar to say a better athlete in basketball **** talking on the court while beating his opponents and I'm sure in some games he has tilted his oppoonents into losing more money to him. Maybe sometimes he has gone overboard, saw him berate a dealer in one clip but overall I think Tony G **** talking to possibly pump himself up as well as gain a possible mental edge over his opponents is vastly more acceptable than being a sore loser that berates amateur play at the tables.

Yeah the junky off suit hands Q4o/K2o and junky suited hands 73s/52s are standard as 3bets in BB, but they’re meant to be raise-folds in a polar strat not raise-calls.

The problem is the sizing Phil used and the last call.

Idk whether Foxen has calls versus the large sizing Phil used. I assume he 4bet/folds because they’re so shallow. Against a linear top 10% 4bet range, 52s has better equity than Q4o. So if Phil is calling Q4o I presume he has no raise/folds. Which is incoherent as a strategy.

You’re supposed to fold the polar part of your 3bet range to a jam. If he has no raise/folds he would be better off jamming whichever hands he plans to raise, no?

Not if your opponent views the raise that is not all in as slightly stronger than just a pure jam. I don't think someone jams lighter than what they would have called to an all in jam.

So it's either the same or better?

When we're discussing the strategy of a player who relies heavily on reads we can't say "Oh, he 3-bet called Q4o, therefore he's got no 3-bet folds for this 3-bet sizing". Because, although Hellmuth called with Q4o in this hand, he might fold hands stronger than Q4o if he makes a different read.

I think Hellmuth just made a bad read that Foxen's open was weak, 3-bet without putting that much thought into the sizing/what he'd do if Foxen shoved, then decided (perhaps incorrectly) he was priced-in versus the range he put Foxen on at this stage of the hand. So, I mostly agree that Hellmuth butchered this hand. But I take issue with some of your statements.

THIS SOUTHWEST AMERICAN IDIOT COULDNT EVEN SPELL POKER

HU for rollz?

That's a ridiculous way of paraphrasing what he said and you should know it.

Just saying.

Quit making something else of the point he made. He clearly stated he's not in the Tony G camp, and does not like it when sometimes he does Phill Helmuth stuff like being a sore loser as present in your link. It's called nuance and he might have a point.

Ralph Perry, the guy Tony G continued to mock with the "get on your bike" comment long after he had already knocked him out, was Russian, a fact Tony G kept pointing out during the mockery. Tony G is from NATO country Lithuania. Makes sense now.

It's corny but it had to be done.

yes, no choice!

says the guy who was vehemently defending the cheater who peeked at Barry's hole cards on the Hustler Live Stream.

my condolences on only getting a 1-day ban last week! keep working on it... you can do it!

At 1:24, Foxen gives up a live tell that he doesn't have nutted hands: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQLt6obZ9YI&t=84s

Helmuth: You caught me making a move
Foxen: That's good to hear

If Foxen had QQ+, AQs+, AKo he wouldn't have made that comment. If Foxen had nutted hands, he wants Hellmuth to call. Foxen is really saying "That's good you don't have a nutted hand because I don't"

In your face solver nerds!


Interesting side note from page 132 of Michael Acevedo's book "Modern Poker Theory":


The best approach when exploitatively widening your ranges is to start by increasing the
frequency of hands that are played with a mixed strategy.

This is because the threshold hands are the first hands to become profitable against Villain leaks.
For example, if a hand such as A9o is bet 25% of the time in some spot, the best exploit against a
player who overfolds will be to bet A9o 100% of the time. From there, you can add hands that
are very close to the borderline hands, such as perhaps A8o and A7o, instead of randomly adding
something like Q4o.

Not random for gods like Hellmuth you simpleton!

The blatant verbal tell does elimate holdings which in turn help justify calling with 2.5 to 1 pot odds. Still bad if you add in ICM but Hellmuth only goes for first. Plus, he would not have much chips to work with if he folded.

The virgin "ICM losing call" vs the Chad "any two will do"

"obvs".

if i weren't so dumb i'd figure out a way to quote the posts of you defending the cheater. too bad!

I know most people don't like Phil and this hand is debatable no matter how you twist it.
But you can't deny he can read people and pick up tells that may not be obvious to us.

He's never putting Foxen on a specific hand, but I'm sure he's excluding a lot of hands from his range.

everybody a live tell expert when you can see their exact hands

as someone who spews a lot of nonsensical horseshit, foxen should certainly understand the mindset it takes to play q4 that way.

what is it that foxen has done that is so terrible? i must've missed it.

I think he said something anti-vax on his Tweeter