Why is Bitcoin not the ultimate solution for online poker? I'm rather convinced that it solves a majority of the issues.

Basically I envision Phil's new site as a low rake environment that is full of online professionals battling it out. Running an internet pokersite on internet currency is way cheaper than running it in tradition fiat. Smaller operating cost= small rake.

And yes extremely few recs hold bitcoin currently and will be able to deposit. But I am struggling to see how Phil's site will ever appeal and get deposits from complete amateurs. So imo better to cater to his RunitOnce fanbase which is majority professional poker players

how is this relevant to anything I said? why did you quote me?

I'm not a losing player, use a hud and typically play 6-8 tables, but I still can see how huds and multitabling are really bad for the long term health of poker. There is a reason why live 2/5 is way easier than online 50 nl, and there's a reason why the former will be going strong for longer than the latter.

You can shear a sheep many times, but you can only skin him once.

For starters limiting the player pool to people who use BTC isn't a good business model for a site that wants to compete with PS; it's already possible to play using BTC; and using BTC doesn't mean you operate outside the law. Do you really think Phil wants to end up like Micon? There is 0 chance this becomes a BTC-based site.

This is just a suggestion for Phil Galfond's site and relates to his site requirements, any debate solely about rake should probably be discussed in a different thread.

Rake method suggestion

I think the *ideal way to rake online poker in this climate and inline with PG's site requirements would be to tax withdrawals of only **long-term winning players.

In a rake-free environment the game would naturally produce a decent percentage of long-term winners whatever the distribution of skill levels, and withdrawals could be taxed like income tax, 25% for most and up to 40% for big earners.

This method would probably take less for the site than the current method, but it would be taking the *right amounts out of the game depending on the current health of the games.

Big milestones could still incentivise regs to reach hand targets, ie 100k hands = Tournament tickets, 500k hands = holiday, 1m hands = High stakes ticket, 10m = car etc.

Benefits of this would include:
- Rake sensitve to poker communities winrates, house only takes from games when players have edges. This ensures games are never over raked.
- New players lose to regs only, not the double tax of regs AND house.
- New players could recieve bonuses aswell as playing rake free to give them a great first experience of the game.
- Big winners pay a bit more back into the system.
- Discourages frequent withdrawals.
- Ingame money remains on the table, longer better experience.
- ?Wouldn't this be a 100% skill game if no rake is taken from losing players?


*Ideal for the balance between profit and healthy ecosystem
** Players in profit over say 10k hand

what you are proposing is likely 10 times smaller than current rake. We can hope that Galfond's site will have smaller rake, but be realistic.

there's also a reason I'd rather kill myself than actually play live for a living (sober). The 2 are very different games and should stay that way. Also, these days plenty recs multitable and prefer it that way.

Pretty much all rake free sites have failed miserably thus far. Raking the withdrawals that would get taxed I'm quite a few countries anyways seems rather silly.

So I am sure this has been asked.... Is this for all of USA?

Isn't Bitcoin wildly volatile? Why would pros want to hold significant portions of their net worth in Bitcoin? Personally I would rather be playing USD games.

No chance the Scheinbergs will have anything to do with this poker site or any other one ever. 100% a non-compete clause was part of the deal.

It can be done, today poker world is tough, but there is plenty of companies making millions, billions with it. Unibet proves there is space for growth, as well party microgaming. In the end banks not giving 5 billions to amaya cause of love for poker. And if shady company as amaya can run business, than you can do it as well

Poker has 2 problems, not enough rec and too many regs. Make it popular again.

Make it different. Make it cool, excited. Bring back fun to poker. Have live casino brand as well. Sunday million final mtt can be played live, make a show of it. One time per month, so is not too often, since it can lose popularity soon. Just stop mtt online, sent airplane ticket to guys. Introduce players, a bit of their life, people like to see average Joe on TV. Show how they were picked up by hot girls at airport, how they arrive at luxury hotel. Hottest chick being a dealer, another one half naked sitting on heap of million dollars. Make voting open for audience to pick their best player, most fun, cool player. Have one sit reserved for a star, big celebrity. Same can be done for spins.

Do not offer micro cash games. Start wit nl50, have table cap. Make it possible for new players to play in segregated tables without rake until they reach number of hands, profit. Not allow to cash out this profit. They must generate rake at normal tables first.

Give rakeback deals for huge looser, no rewards for regs, unless they do marketing for poker. Give em supernova elita status, when they reach extreme popularity online. Let regs do marketing for you on social networks. Save marketing cost here. Make poker fun for rec and as well regs.

Bring new formats to poker. Bring bounty sng, bounty spins. Give tone of free cash for new players. No HUDs, 4 table cap max.

Why the hell are poker sites still using USD?

Americans can't even play poker anymore

Because it will be the last currency to collapse.

TimStone?

Never happening in a million years

Your post was about HUDs. I was explaining why many people believe HUDs are unfair. I was trying to give rational explanations, rather than 'they don't like HUDs, must be losing players lololol'.

Guess you have only heard faint news of bitcoin and never used the currency yourself. Its a digital currency. Extremely liquid. Very useful for an online professional poker player

Used by criminals and clamped down on by governments and banks everywhere. I would use bitcoin if I was an online poker professional living in the USA, aside from that steer clear if you have a brain.

Right, it's a digital currency and extremely liquid, isn't it still volatile though? Why would a pro use it over a more stable currency? There are stable currencies that are also very liquid.

But you are right, I've never used Bitcoin.

I think this idea is long overdue. If you remove or significantly reduce rake you've just created more winners, more break even players, and more slight losers instantaneously. All great for the game.

And all pretty bad to make money. I have my doubts that gandalph's goal is to run a wellfare program for struggling poker pros

This isnt going to work out well. Where is traffic going to even come from?

1)ads will generate a ton less revenue than current rate structures
How much do you think a table can make in ad revenue per hour from 6 people playing a ton of tables who don't even notice the ads?

2)if sites do start selling ad space why would they then also charge less rake? it would just be extra revenue for them.

Micon went afowl because he was promoting the site from las vegas

Amazon and CVS use it, too. Get with the times. What you're saying is sooooooo 2006. There are grocery stores out there accepting bitcoin debit cards. There are companies out there now offering to send weekly paychecks via bitcoin wallets.

And, simply allowing bitcoin deposits and withdrawals the way Bovada and Americas Cardroom do isn't the same as a "bitcoin poker site" like Seals With Clubs. It's totally different. Bitcoin is simply used to transfer to and from the site...once it's on the site you play in USD and your account is managed in USD. The money isn't converted back to bitcoin until you cashout....at which point you can sell the bitcoin and convert it to USD in a short amount of time...no reason to be paranoid about losing your money to government intervention in this scenario.

The money only remains in the form of bitcoin for a very short period of time while it's being transferred to and from the site. Unless YOU choose to keep it in the form of bitcoin and wait for the value of bitcoin to increase before selling it and converting it to USD....more profit potential that simply doesn't exist in any other deposit/cashout method on a poker site.

Not only can you be a poker pro with bitcoin, but a currency exchanger, as well. Neat, huh?

Yea. And, isn't he back up and running again in Antigua?