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Old 09-02-2016, 10:26 AM   #301
dikface
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

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Originally Posted by INyaDOME View Post
Are they getting more value? I would argue that a reg on 4 tables putting all his concentration on those 4 tables is more deadly than a reg spreading his focus across 20 tables with the help of a HUD.

I don't think I'm guessing when the documented win rates of players on Pokerstars is the same when those same players are on Bovada. I would say YOU and Bovada are guessing, though. Because, you're sure as hell not presenting any data to back up the claim that anonymity helps recs....that's for sure.
Me thinks that rubbery thing inyadome isn't working so well
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Old 09-02-2016, 10:30 AM   #302
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

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Old 09-02-2016, 10:36 AM   #303
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

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I have no idea how much it would cost, so that could be a terrible idea, but I ask you guys anyway.

If poker sites don't earn much from rake on high stakes, why don't they make high stakes (and only high stakes) free of rake so regs could battle even with very small edges. Costly, yes, but marketing from that would be very good because of more hs action than anywhere else.
Why not put third-party ads around such tables targeted to those railing (or third-party video ads during breaks in final tables of big tournaments) to subsidize the removal of rake?
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Old 09-02-2016, 10:43 AM   #304
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

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Why not put third-party ads around such tables targeted to those railing (or third-party video ads during breaks in final tables of big tournaments) to subsidize the removal of rake?
....because i already get enough emails offering solutions to enlarge my penis.
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Old 09-02-2016, 10:45 AM   #305
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

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This is the only way for a sustainable environment! You have to work for your customers(=poker players), if you want to build a great company. People tend to pay for quality.
I wish poker players thought like this. but they have shown time and time again they will happily destroy their own games long term if they can make an extra few bucks short term.
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Old 09-02-2016, 10:49 AM   #306
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

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I don't think that poker is anywhere close to dying. Pokerstars still has 120,000 players playing online every night at peak hours.

I bet this number would be 400,000 (maybe more) if people were actually winning and not not quitting after breaking even over 100,000 hands due to rake.


You right buddy, its going great.

They had a daily avg of cash players at over 20k a year ago, now they have 11.5k. Very good!

They didnt even have 400k in teh client with us, italy, france and co. during boomtimes.

Teh utter nonsense and complete misinformation some people spread is aSTONEishing
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Old 09-02-2016, 10:52 AM   #307
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

Good news! Hope it works and establish some competition to stars.

One good advice would be to invest some of your marketing in Brazil. Poker is still growing a lot here and probably would be a decent source of new players to target.

Anyway gl. Hope for the best!
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Old 09-02-2016, 11:01 AM   #308
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

asking whether or not poker is dying is the wrong question for this thead (but answer is of course it is declining)

the better question would be... could someone launch a profitable business in the online poker space in 2017?

The answer to that is for sure, ( regulatory will be a ***** though and drain alot of fun and profit from the business)

You dont need to be a behemoth like Amaya or 888 to have success.

if a site could throw off 1-20 million of EBITDA per year for owners, that would be pretty sweet.

Certainly will make more money than selling online training videos, and be a heck of a lot more fun. amirite?

but yeah its the regulatory, man, all about the regulatory.
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Old 09-02-2016, 11:18 AM   #309
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

This is going to be epic!
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Old 09-02-2016, 11:18 AM   #310
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

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Those suggesting no high stakes tables because recs lose their money way to fast wtf? Its one of the main attractions for new players to play poker, besides recs that play 50-100 to 200-400 aren't interested in playing 1-2 to 5-10 these guys are rich businessmen or whatever that get a thrill playing these high stakes games and at the same time attract new players to the game to deposit play smaller stakes with the dream to play these high stakes.

All you need to do is view IPoker and the other sites that have got rid of all high stakes tables, no action no railing = poker is boring!

And yes railing, since railing attracts discussion discussion is posted on websites and forums on the internet and chatted between friends which all attracts new players to the game and as i said these guys playing these stakes do not play < 5/10 anyway so why get rid of these games at all.

Also if you just view who the most popular online poker players are, and what they all have in common? Answer they play high stakes and 99% of them are heads up players.
I kind of agree actually

Even to the jaded 2+2 er rail bird heaven on ftp was tons of fun and when isuldur took on everybody across like 10 tables or whatever.

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Old 09-02-2016, 11:19 AM   #311
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

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....because i already get enough emails offering solutions to enlarge my penis.
What the women you date choose to email to you is your business, but I'm sure they have their reasons
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Old 09-02-2016, 11:28 AM   #312
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

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Me thinks that rubbery thing inyadome isn't working so well
Well, me thinks you would have actual data proving that this rubbery thing inmydome isn't working so well.

Yet, you don't and $5 billion dollar companies like Amaya are now basing business decisions on a MYTH that lacks actual data by making the same assumptions you're making here.

#mostpoorlyrunindustryintheworld
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Old 09-02-2016, 11:29 AM   #313
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

Call me skeptical but I don't give this high odds of success (which would be in the end a trustworthy, accessible, and high traffic site). As far as I know Phil has little experience either heading a high traffic software product nor does he appear to have any experience building a company. Not saying that he can't do it, just that its way more likely this fails and ends badly.

It was a random israeli businessman (at least to the poker world) that built the most reliable and trustworthy poker site (in a much easier market). I expect that a genuinely innovative and capable person exists that could build a successful poker site in the current environment, but that they would probably be more of an unknown to the poker community.

What Phil can bring to the table is an understanding of user needs a poker site needs to provide, but I'm pretty sure howard lederer and chris ferguson understood that too. What they didn't understand was internal company management and how to really question and uncover the failure modes of their product (the backlog was a business process as well as software failure mode).

Also, the technology and legal environment today would dictate different choices of architecture and business strategy than pokerstars, full tilt, etc.. relied on when they were built. Lots of decisions about how to build, what customer niches to go after early, legal difficulties of operating in certain jurisdictions and an added problem of how to attract engineering talent. Just my 2 cents but I think if Phil tried to build a software startup outside of poker (and was successful) and then on his next attempt tried this I think it would be more likely to succeed. But as it is this seems like jumping in the big game before you've worked your way up from the lower limits.
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Old 09-02-2016, 11:43 AM   #314
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

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Originally Posted by LA_Price View Post
Call me skeptical but I don't give this high odds of success (which would be in the end a trustworthy, accessible, and high traffic site). As far as I know Phil has little experience either heading a high traffic software product nor does he appear to have any experience building a company. Not saying that he can't do it, just that its way more likely this fails and ends badly.

It was a random israeli businessman (at least to the poker world) that built the most reliable and trustworthy poker site (in a much easier market). I expect that a genuinely innovative and capable person exists that could build a successful poker site in the current environment, but that they would probably be more of an unknown to the poker community.

What Phil can bring to the table is an understanding of user needs a poker site needs to provide, but I'm pretty sure howard lederer and chris ferguson understood that too. What they didn't understand was internal company management and how to really question and uncover the failure modes of their product (the backlog was a business process as well as software failure mode).

Also, the technology and legal environment today would dictate different choices of architecture and business strategy than pokerstars, full tilt, etc.. relied on when they were built. Lots of decisions about how to build, what customer niches to go after early, legal difficulties of operating in certain jurisdictions and an added problem of how to attract engineering talent. Just my 2 cents but I think if Phil tried to build a software startup outside of poker (and was successful) and then on his next attempt tried this I think it would be more likely to succeed. But as it is this seems like jumping in the big game before you've worked your way up from the lower limits.
I think as long as Phil surrounds himself with the right people he has a chance at pulling it off, he definitely will provide an insight into ways that a poker site should be run having played for many years and I imagine he will be excellent in playing a role of 'community manager' as already demonstrated by his participation in this thread. Also worth noting that Phil has run RIO the training site business successfully.

But he should definitely also employ people that have previous experience when it comes to running a business/software of this scale, and like someone mentioned earlier in the thread consider hiring someone like Isai Scheinberg as a consultant.

Having said that it does seem to be a difficult task but I hope he can succeed and wish him luck.
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Old 09-02-2016, 11:51 AM   #315
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

imo the ideas best chance

Galfond lends name and expertise to some Billionaires, who are ready to develop and create something to eventually pitch to the Legal U.S sites. With Pennsylvania about to legalize internet gambling, who could then link up with New Jersey as well as New York who's close also. Galfond needs money people to create something they can sell to future Legal U.S firms or else youre jsut another scam site, offshore husle imo
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Old 09-02-2016, 12:01 PM   #316
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

Phil's Room - Unrigging poker since 2016
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Old 09-02-2016, 12:01 PM   #317
Giroudgeous
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

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Originally Posted by INyaDOME View Post
Well, me thinks you would have actual data proving that this rubbery thing inmydome isn't working so well.

Yet, you don't and $5 billion dollar companies like Amaya are now basing business decisions on a MYTH that lacks actual data by making the same assumptions you're making here.

#mostpoorlyrunindustryintheworld
Will try one more time; dude, you're arguing against a point nobody is making.

Nobody has said you're wrong or that the other side is right. What is being said is that you are making assumptions and speculating just like everyone else. The difference is that you keep portraying your assumptions as facts.

Finally, while they have unquestionably made some poor decisions,and a lot of what they have done is questionable (at best), to think Amaya are making decisions based on a narrative and nothing else is honestly just dumb.
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Old 09-02-2016, 12:06 PM   #318
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

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Originally Posted by casparjasper View Post
I think as long as Phil surrounds himself with the right people he has a chance at pulling it off, he definitely will provide an insight into ways that a poker site should be run having played for many years and I imagine he will be excellent in playing a role of 'community manager' as already demonstrated by his participation in this thread. Also worth noting that Phil has run RIO the training site business successfully.

But he should definitely also employ people that have previous experience when it comes to running a business/software of this scale, and like someone mentioned earlier in the thread consider hiring someone like Isai Scheinberg as a consultant.

Having said that it does seem to be a difficult task but I hope he can succeed and wish him luck.
I'm not sure how comparable the RIO training site it, as it has no legal difficulties in operating and doesn't require high number of concurrent users all doing a high number of financial transactions at the same time. It probably gives him some experience in internet marketing (which is important) but I'd imagine that the actual software itself is an off the shelf implementation with perhaps some add customizations. Something like running a bitcoin or marketplace exchange (financially speaking) would be a comparable.

I also wish him luck in the venture. It would be nice to have additional options on the market run by reputable people. I think an interesting niche could be just being a software development shop that attempts to get contracts for developing state sites where online poker is legal.
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Old 09-02-2016, 12:07 PM   #319
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

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You right buddy, its going great.

They had a daily avg of cash players at over 20k a year ago, now they have 11.5k. Very good!

They didnt even have 400k in teh client with us, italy, france and co. during boomtimes.


Teh utter nonsense and complete misinformation some people spread is aSTONEishing
they would have now... do the math
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Old 09-02-2016, 12:38 PM   #320
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

Isai and Mark should silently back this venture .. They have the $$$$$ and know how and galfond can be the face
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Old 09-02-2016, 12:41 PM   #321
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

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Originally Posted by TimStone View Post


You right buddy, its going great.

They had a daily avg of cash players at over 20k a year ago, now they have 11.5k. Very good!

They didnt even have 400k in teh client with us, italy, france and co. during boomtimes.

Teh utter nonsense and complete misinformation some people spread is aSTONEishing
Dude your only referencing cash games here.

These games aren't as popular as they once were because recreational players prefer to play Spins and Hypers now.

And I said ther're would be 400,000 players playing online if more people were winning consistently.

English clearly isn't your first language
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Old 09-02-2016, 12:42 PM   #322
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

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Huds are not a problem guys. They started around 2005-6 and for like 5 years no one complained about them at all. You guys think they are the problem but they are not. The problems are:

1. Segregation of countries.
2. Very bad fish to reg ratio.
3. Massive rake.

They all combined lead to games which we have in 2016.
Following your own logic "massive rake" isn't a problem either.
Effective rake was higher in the heyday of online poker.
Rake is as high or higher live now than it was 5+ years ago and games are fine (not quite as good but still very good)

As for the bad fish to reg ratio (which is a massive problem) that's caused in large part by mass multi tabling made possible by huds and other software.
If we could somehow have clones of ourselves go to casinos and sit at every table games would go to absolute **** in a day.

Additionally only complete short sited idiots were for higher and higher table caps in 2005-2006.bunch of fools determined to kill the golden goose.
Then again most people thought the gravy train forever back then which is why so many big winners from back then went broke.

Regs think sites are gonna let them fleece fish and not pay for it. ****ing fantasy land.


People in this thread also massively underestimate the costs of getting tons of rec players to come to the site and constantly deposit money at a time where poker has lost a lot of it's luster from 10 years ago.

Last edited by borg23; 09-02-2016 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 09-02-2016, 12:50 PM   #323
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

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Following your own logic "massive rake" isn't a problem either.
Effective rake was higher in the heyday of online poker.
Rake is as high or higher live now than it was 5+ years ago and games are fine (not quite as good but still very good)

As for the bad fish to reg ratio (which is a massive problem) that's caused in large part by mass multi tabling made possible by huds and other software.
If we could somehow have clones of ourselves go to casinos and sit at every table games would go to absolute **** in a day.

Additionally only complete short sited idiots were for higher and higher table caps in 2005-2006.bunch of fools determined to kill the golden goose.
Then again most people thought the gravy train forever back then which is why so many big winners from back then went broke.

Regs think sites are gonna let them fleece fish and not pay for it. ****ing fantasy land.


People in this thread also massively underestimate the costs of getting tons of rec players to come to the site and constantly deposit money at a time where poker has lost a lot of it's luster from 10 years ago.
bless this soul right here people

I think I know who this is, and you play a great Live big field MTT game. Seriously, if these morons dont realize its a bandaid on a longterm wound, oh my gawd im gonna sacrifice my morals and take them for every single penny they are dumb enough to give soon..

anyway i dont know who you are I think its VV, but anyway bless you you got a great perspective on things imo
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Old 09-02-2016, 12:57 PM   #324
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

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I've always agreed with his statement and I play on Bovada regularly.

Anon tables do nothing to prevent fish from losing money (win rates of regs don't change on Bovada versus other sites) and only increase their paranoia of bots, etc...

On another note, table caps increase chat abuse immensely. I've never seen more insults being thrown around than what I saw in my first 6 months on Bovada. Players have time to insult one another when they're restricted to 4 tables. Which, also slows down play because they spend more time typing and less time clicking.

People who promote table caps and anon tables as some kind of a savior never take into consideration the negatives.

Bodog doesn't do anon right (the being able to leave and come back in 5 mins with a min stack is a joke) but anon tables are way better for recs. for starters they get to actually play with other bad players sometimes and don't get hunted like they used to. they also don't have idiots in the chat looking them up on tr and telling them how much money theyre down.

i agree chat can be a detriment when dumb regs want to abuse the fish but overall i havent it seen it slow the games down at all. and especially not compared to some dildo playing 24 tables taking 30 seconds to fold 94offsuit utg.

in fact the vast majority of those on bodog who take forever to act every god damb time NEVER chat and it's pretty obvious they're playing across multiple sites which is why they're acting so ****ing slow.
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Old 09-02-2016, 12:59 PM   #325
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Re: Phil Galfond to Start a Poker Site

Ugghhhh, from reading through this thread it sounds like some people are always going to be unhappy no matter what Phil does.

I feel like zoom is a great game because it restricts the number of tables that you can play and fish get distributed evenly.

The problem obviously being the massive rake.

Maybe, if people were restricted to 2 zoom tables, it would be best for the poker economy, because you'd still be getting 500 hands per hour and regulars wouldn't be able to play 4 zoom games at a time
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