Even Mason thinks rakeback means ANY rake you get back!!!!!! Mason has been in the game alot longer than any of us!!!

Thank you Mason for clearing that up!!!!

Cant' wait to open a site and offer you flip your stack for rake back, then give you a donut if you win, hey rake back in any form right!

Not a donut, but there is an old strategy book that Mason loves to hate, in which the author recommends splashing the pot with a sandwich when people are hungry and the player wants a call.

Any update on when MTTs will come up?

Been watching players on twitch playing on the site.
The guys trying something a bit different,
Hope it works out for him,
Going to deposit and give it a go.

Sure, if you think that this:

and this:

mean the same thing.

Which of course, they don't.

The thread is 100+ pages deep. What is the site? Where can it be played from?

See https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...hread-1735454/

Hi folks, since the site has become more user friendly, giving what the players want, what is the current activity on the site, apparently it used to be pretty dead, has it increased much now?

What complaints do you have about the site still, that they need to improve?

Currently distributing 101% of the rake collected back to the players through splash the pot! Very frequent 1-5 BB splashes, occasionally higher ones as well.
Phil Galfond streaming on twitch daily - yesterday around 250 entries at the tables, majority in PLO but also decent amount of NL. Additionally you get the chance to play vs Phil and watch 5min later his thought process of the hands played vs you in twitch !
Software is very stable , resizable tables , no bugs ( in my experience) , cash in / out works all fast and smooth (for me) .
Definitely a good time to give it a try !

Regarding what Mason said about rakeback for the worst players. I witnessed a maniac hit a 1000 bb splash pot tonight. He stayed at the tables for hours after, giving most of it away.

Jeff Bezos, Amazon Founder and worlds richest man:

"Our main advantage has been obsessive compulsive interest in our customers demands and satisfaction, and not much in what our competition is doing".

It is beyond believe that Phil gets so much feedback from its customers or potential customers as to what would make them play on its site, and he flat out ignores it! Dude seriously, you cant force everyone to like Splash the Pot as the only rakeback option... some people want rake races, some want classic direct rakeback after goals have completed, and some want All in Insurance.

Split your numbers and give everyone their share, then offer the highest rakeback in the market and there you got it, the market is yours.

People who have less money after their interaction with the site are 'customers', people who have more money after their interaction with the site are 'employees' or 'suppliers'.

Running the business like Amazon is pretty much what is happening, and it probably is a good idea.

And that proves what? It's quite likely a mistake to automatically assume that giving RB to losing players is better. A sound argument for the counter can be made: RB given to winning players stays with players. RB given to losing players is, for the most part, kept by the site. For example, it's probably being generous to Stars to claim they take 95% of deposits, with 5% going to winning players. They weren't "helping the ecosystem" when they adjusted their distribution of rakeback. For every RB dollar they redistributed from a winning player to a fish, they later reclaimed 95 cents.

I would agree with your sentiment. Rakeback is no different than comps in a casino. The house has a bias/preference to comp those players that are more likely to continue playing. If one believes this analogy to be correct; one will also understand that comps, generally, are not used to get you in the door, merely to stay.

Nice to see that I'm still in your head to the extent where your entire Publisher's Note this month was basically responding to one of my posts.

Unfortunately, your entire essay misunderstood my point.

I'm not criticizing Splash the Pot, nor am I claiming that it's unhealthy for the poker economy. I will agree that it can make the game more fun for recs than traditional rakeback does.

My issue was the marketing misuse of the actual term "rakeback", which has a very specific meaning ever since it appeared nearly 20 years ago.

Arguing that "rakeback" can mean high hand/jackpot promotions is like arguing that you can call someone "gay" and expect them to understand that you mean "happy".

Regardless of the dictionary definition of the word (which doesn't exist for 'rakeback' anyway), the accepted modern meaning of the word is what's important when it comes to marketing.

Nobody sees high hand promotions, jackpots, or Splash the Pot as "rakeback". Even shady card rooms don't try to claim those promos are "rakeback". If you use the term "rakeback" to describe these, you are misleading the vast majority of people who know that term to mean something else.

I find it unethical to solicit signups to your poker site based upon a claim of "51% rakeback", when the rakeback being given does not at all resemble the rakeback the traditional poker grinder would envision when signing up. It is the burden of the poker site to clarify that in their marketing material, if they feel confusion will occur (which in this case, definitely will).

Bottom line: If you market something, and the vast majority of customers are misled by what you're claiming to offer, then you are acting unethically. There's no way around that.

You have not demonstrated that "the vast majority of customers are misled." I have not seen/read/heard of any RIO player claim that they were mislead, let alone "a vast majority" of them. You don't like how RIO uses the term rakeback, we get it. But don't make false claims/assumptions to try and justify your dislike of how RIO uses a word. It's okay to just say you don't like it.

Kilowatt have you actually played on the site? I didn't like the sound of Splash the Pot in theory but in practice you see a lot of 1bb-5bb splashes, I've definitely begun to enjoy it after playing on the site.

"Rakeback" has meant different things at different times anyway (to most of us at least):

* Dealt rb
* Contributed rb
* Weighted contributed rb
* Top-weighted VIP programs almost no-one hits
* "essence"/"player index" where "60%" means "20%"
* Empty chests

The amount of money given back in any form has been dropping over the years to the point where 5% seems generous and most winning players on most sites get 0-2%. You might not like the method but 51% given back (in any way) is way above industry standard, even if you personally don't like how it's marketed.

The people playing right now are mostly Galfond fanboys or people who closely followed the progress of Run It Once. Therefore, it's not at all surprising that they were all aware what "51% rakeback" really meant.

For the average longtime grinder who sees "51% rakeback for all players" on the front page with no further explanation, what else are they supposed to think besides it being traditional rakeback?

Can you name one prominent other site in online poker history which used the term "rakeback" to mean anything but some form of getting a percentage of your rake (or the rake paid at your table) in either a delayed cash payment or bonus?

I can't play Run It Once where I am located.

Again, I have no problem with Splash the Pot itself. My only issue comes with the highly misleading marketing of it as "51% rakeback", when the average new player will envision something completely different.

Nor can I and I also keep up with the thread and keep my mouth shut.

Everyone gets it. You've said it one hundred ****ing times. Maybe you could shut your mouth too after getting your point across.

Im an average player and Im glad he calls it rakeback so I know exactly what Im getting.

51% of the rake taken, given back. Hence, rakeback.

get a life

Again, you are simply making assumptions without any basis regarding RIO players. I do not know what people who read RIO's website are "supposed to think" and neither do you. That said, if you were able to figure out that rakeback is returned via STP: why do you assume others will not read that information on the site? Whether or not other sites offer rakeback in the form of STP is irrelevant and does not support your claim that "the vast majority of customers are misled."

and everyone seems to agree that rakeback is defined as rake that is given back to the players. you're the only one with some weird alternate definition that only includes "traditional" rakeback - did you make this same argument when networks switched from dealt to contributed rb?