I see no reason why this would be true. New games attract "fun players."

New games do appeal to the masses. RIO will never get solid numbers offering NLHE and PLO, since everyone has already played those games. Furthermore, those games are dying because they've already been analyzed to death and are only going to become even more solved, making them less attractive to fun players.

Stars hasn't needed to innovate because it's been operating with virtual monopoly status granted to it by governments. That's a different problem altogether (over-regulation of the entire poker industry).

In actually competitive market, innovation matters a lot.

As someone who wants to see Phil's site succeed, you are surely trying to paint the most negative picture of the site possible

Oh the hype is still here, just join the RIO discord or pop in a RIO stream on Twitch. Checkout the thread in internet poker and see how much traction it gets, or watch twitter.

What lack of innovation? Have you seen any other pokersite that came with 'Splash the pot' idea and 51% rakeback for ALL players? A avatar/nickname system that make HUDs pointless? You need to understand this market is mature. 15 years old and 100s of pokersites and skins that came. And still RIO finds innovative, yes innovative ideas to give cashgames a new spin. I'm sure MTT/SNG's will have some unique idea too.

Party hasn't innovated since 2005. They are still fighting bots (or not fighting them). Just a few years ago they segregated playerpools between regs and fish. They have weird relationships with stables and their software after 15 years is still terrible. They ban huds but can't enforce it etc.

SNG's and MTTs will come. And I'm sure Phil will bring something innovative to these formats too. How are you gonna have zoom and mixed games with no playerpool btw? No crypto is something they are trying to fix but there are regulation rules they need to follow.

Thats exactly how things work. You contradict yourself with this line btw "If you are not mortified by your beta, you have waited too long." You release your product and improve it over time. Make your customers part of the process and 'relaunch' the site with every new feature (like mtts and sngs)

Strongly disagree. Rec's and fish will love the site IMO. Splashed pots bring action and 'a chance to win big'. Recs love that ****. Also, no HUD is something every rec has been crying for, for years. And unlike party, you don't need to rake $100k to get decent rakeback. Everyone (including recs) will get rakeback in Splashed pots. I do agree splashed pots need to be recognized easier.

I'm sorry for the somewhat long post and the passive aggressiveness but your post kinda tilted me somehow. I hope I can change your mind a little bit. Give the site a fair chance to improve. Rome wasn't built in one day, is a line I saw mentioned a few times.

Recreational players don't care about rakeback. Many of them don't even know what rake is. This has been established over and over again on these forums.

It's mind-boggling that Galfond thinks this is an important feature. He needs to attract fun players to his site first and foremost. Pros follow the fun players, not the other way around.

RIO would be far better off coming up with a new game that recreational players enjoy and can win at (by "win," I mean "not get slaughtered to the point where they will quit the game entirely" such as is the case with NLHE and PLO).

"This market is mature?" LMFAO.

This market is stagnant. It's long been a disaster because it's been devastated by governments over the years. This is why Pokerstars has gotten away with basically zero innovation all this time and still managed to stay on top.

Galfond will only be able to compete with Stars if he steals away their recreational players. He will only accomplish that if he comes up with a way to make them lose money at a much slower pace and in a much more enjoyable fashion than they lose it at Stars.

The only way to do that is by creating some new variants.

I do, but as I said, I've been playing for a loong time, when I started Party was still bigger than Stars. I've seen trends come and go, winning players turn into washed up players etc. I'm just trying to be realistic. And I didn't say Party is perfect, far from it (btw., from a pure product perspective, I think SWC is the best right now) - it's just better. Which is troubling.

How are you gonna build a player base without the games?


No I don't. And no, it's not. But let's move on.

I appreciate your thoughts. I watched your stream and I understand your enthusiasm towards the site (and probably hopes for partner etc.). But again, realistically, #Philoursaviour will very, very likely be met with disappointment imo. There's a small window for any game/software to gather momentum (hype) and keep it going, and this product, in my eyes, will not be the saviour you're looking for.

Yes the market is mature LMFAO you think otherwise. Never said recrationals care about rakeback. They will, however, care about splashed pots. It's mind-boggling that you think you know things better then Phil Galfond.

"Coming up with a new game" LMFAO why dont you come up with one?

LMFAO If you think Phil is competing with Stars atm.

If your playerbase is small, you cannot support zoom. GGpoker is a good example. They have 100x the playerbase as RIO but can only support 3 limits (barely). iPoker only has zoom up to 20NL. For zoom, you need a lot of players.

I am not saying RIO will be a success but judging them on their inital public beta launch is a bit too soon. They will need a to fight an uphill battle but I think their choices and ideas are very good so far.

All the rake talk is enough to make me puke. Jesus Christ.

Play where you play or don't.

Players play in places they like considering many variables. Rake is one of them.

Let's start dissecting chicken wraps, brisket, F&B, tables and chairs and quality of massage girls too.

Bunch a Fanooks in these threads.

STFU already.

Well this ain't true. Speed rarely runs at other stakes than NL5 and 20 but they do have other stakes allso.

Name one site that offers these and sure we can talk about them. What do you care if people talks about rake that's a pretty big factor where to play. Just stfu and move on you fanoon.

With all the bots/AI it’s beyond me why anon poker is still a thing. The collusion potential is huge, and no one will ever know if a player is using assistance or not.
It also doesn’t mimic live play on top of that. Or the players wear masks when playing live?

I would never play highstakes here, knowing the softwares that are out there.

And the huds? Gl with that. Every anti hud sites have 3rd party HUD’s. This will be no different. You can’t ban stuff u can’t enforce

hey pokerstars and party, you should but some more effort to these shill posts so someone might take them seriously.

Highstakes (above NL/PLO€2000) will not be anon and HUD will be allowed. So... yeah.

I get people bringing forward bugs, issues, and suggestions for software improvement. What I don't get are people making a big deal over what games they're choosing to offer and what advertising they're doing only 3 days after launch. Perhaps you should give them a little time to ramp things up?

Not sure what you have in mind, but it's mentioned in the second post of their official support thread:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...hread-1735454/

Splash should be max 10bb. "big splashes" replaced by 10bb splash plus everyone gets Xbb added to their stack. When the pot is bombed with 1000bb everyone goes all in, but that's not what most want.

I think 100bb buyin is risky in this environment because fish get killed.

Not sure what innovations you guys were expecting, this is a pokersite. They may offer some poker game variants like BigO, new mixed games, etc. But people will come to play poker nothing else. Also, as seen by money poorly spent by pokerstars in different games, that money is much better spent in something like the Bahamas tourneys, that brings more deposits and promotes the game and site with much better ROI.

They may try to sell that games to pokernews and some marketing people, but no one plays that stuff. Also as seen by the repetitive KO graphics that pokerstars shows, and the chests, programming is hard work.

I can only imagine the number of people and talent needed to develop one of the big videogames. It must be really difficult considering the quality of software of all the pokersites. Still Stars is pretty great.

As for the recs not caring about the rake. Maybe not, but their deposits "care" and last much more with lower rake.

Case in point, maybe recs that play on pokerstars.frespt don't care that regs from all over the world can play on the site, and only recs from portugal, spain and france deposit/play there. But they will win much less often, and cashing is less likely. They may not have the knowledge, but the room if it cares one bit for the longevity of the games should consider it greatly.

I really like the splash pots and dynamic avatars, but unfortunately the client is still too buggy for me. I'll hold off until the next update or when it comes out of beta.

Good pokersite nontheless and I look forward to see it progress. I'm sure it will do well

Lol

Is that all you want?

Thanks mate! I followed all those guidelines still no go. I will contact tht support email.

Rake free games with 5 fish at each table and splash every pot 10BB

Yeah the 100bb+ splashes seem silly because everyone will shove with any 2 (or any 4) and it's a complete luck fest. Not only is the winner determined by luck, everyone who doesn't win also will lose their whole stack. Seems way too high variance to be good policy.

Lol, from what i've seen so far games has been running fairly well

This is the point. Phil talked about how in his high stakes mixed games at Bobby’s Room the PLO flips made the action much looser and was great fun, he wanted to implement a similar feel via his take back program.

This was my concern as well. RB should be some kind of safety net to keep people around because they know they're still getting something back. With this system it increases variance, which is bad imo. You don't want someone to have to gamble in order to get their rakeback. It's also a bad system, imo, when 1 player gets 100% of the rakeback and the rest get 0%.

Makes downswings even worse, makes it more difficult for recs to put 1 buy in on the site and play, and also might drive people away when they realize they will be forced to play a certain way in order to get what they're already earned.

oh come on, splash the pot is by far the most exciting feature on RIO

Arguing against using splashes that incentivize people to ship any 2, not splash the pot as a whole.

Recs already get less rakeback under the current system. Making it so all splashes are skill based would just reduce rec rakeback even further.