I programmed a tic tac toe game in an afternoon on a Timex Sinclair with a cassette tape drive when I was 15. These guys clearly don't know what they're doing. Phil, if you're reading this and need some help let me know, I have some time next weekend

Ha funny..(NULL experience?) The examples given are trash, these companies ALREADY had software. There main focus is maximising profits since they already have functioning software douchebag, Their not 100% focused on software development unlike RIO poker, bang bang.

wonder if chris ferg had a master copy of the much masta baited over Full Tiltware?

sure he'd been able to muster some kind of deal?

This, Tiltware ftw

I'm defensive of my professional group (software programmers).

I just see here the pattern I have already seen before. People with oversimplified view of developing software believing they know better. "How could these morons at XXX not fix this simple bug. I would just add somewhere an easy 'if' statement!"

Many non-programers not realize that writing a building working prototype that for end-user looks like 90% ready product is often the easiest 10% of the work to be done.

Comparing a poker site and RIO with starcraft and blizzard in their past days is deluded and you guys know it.
We don't even need to discuss this.

I disagree. Like in every profession, you also have coders that are just aweful. It's a fact.
But you are right that it could also be the bosses fault to some extend for the reasons you described. But i gotta say that I thought galfond is smart enough to not do these mistakes. They should be avoidable if you make an effort to get yourself into the topic and have a healthy communication with the coders (if they know what they are doing and what's possible).

I am aware that you are not done with 20 lines of codes.
But that doesn't mean that this is a task that should take several days or even more.

Funny that you brought an example - that has nothing to do with my example.
Why don't you run it through with the background colour?
What does have to be done aside from checking that the text is still readable? How much time would you give a coder to change the colour of the text as well so it's readable?
You mentioned lenghty discussions between devs and requiring eventually green light from PG. What kind of discussions do you expect when Galdfond says that he wants a feature to change the background colour?

Since you are a coding pro, according to your estimation, how many working days does it take a team of coders to implement the feature of changing the background colours?


And on a side note: Even if Galfond is a bit delusional about how much time coding takes: His first launching date was early 2017. They not only missed this date but it took them one and a half years more for their first beta.

...How is this a "miscalculation" on galfonds part? There must be major **** ups on the coders part.

I used an example that I thought is even simpler than changing bg color.

Depending on a project - anything between five minutes and few months. In case of something like a poker site I think it probably takes a couple of days of actual work and it could take couple of weeks to complete.

There are many people involved (project lead, gui dev, graphic designer). The scope of the change might be bigger than you think(maybe things like chip animations are already prerendered for the green background?). They might have some formal processes which add a constant overhead to each feature (dev tests, proper tests, documentation writing, translations etc).

This just shows he had no idea how much work there is to a poker site. To announce that they will open in few months they should have already had a working product back then and struggling with the last tests and legislations. And they probably had something like a working prototype which PG thought was 90% of the work done.

Yes, he was simply in the wrong. It's two years later, their product is almost ready, already gone through public beta tests and I am willing to bet that it won't go public in Q1 2019.

What does it tell about the programmers? I think it tells you absolutely nothing.

What odds you would give to people ready to bet?

Depending on how we define going public exactly. If we define it as "RIO poker is officially a public poker site - not a beta test. People from EU or Russia (or some similarly big market) are able to freely open an account, deposit (using something at least skrill or credit card), and play at least 100NL without unreasonable limits for a period of at least 10 consecutive days starting on the 31.March.2019."

I'd give 1:1. PM me if interested.

laughable.

we are talking about the background. Not the table itself. It's about the surrounding the table is in: a pub, a casino, a lounge etc. Or in case of RIO maybe just a specific background colour.
Apart from that, it would already be a mistake to prerender stuff like this for a specific background.

Well I don't know either but just to clarify: You are making big assumptions here. You basically say Galfond was an utter ****** who
a) didn't understand the state of his own project AND
b) rushed ahead with a bogus launch date without even asking his coders when they think the project could be ready.

It's possible that it was that way. But I highly doubt it.
More likely: The coders said it's looking good for early 2017 - aaaand messed it up.
And considering the massive delay from one and a half years, this wasn't just a minor flaw. They messed up big time.

be real for a moment: If you are a business man that has no idea of coding, but you are creating a software product with your team: Would you announce a launch date without checking what your coders say? This is delusional.

Even more so: He would have repeated the very same mistake this year. In April or so he announced that RIO poker is definitely coming this summer. He even said that he waited all this time with a new launch date because he wanted to be sure to not mess up and let people down again.

You think Galfond was again rushing a launch date without checking with his team?!? This is absurd. This man has a reputation to lose and he definitely isn't this dumb.

Ok. I think our positions are quite clear and we won't convince each other.

I still believe it's more likely they just gave way too aggressive, impossible to reach estimate. I don't see any proof that RIO coders are incompetent coders.

I admit I might be biased towards my own kind but of course I wouldn't know if that's the case. Maybe I think I am competent but actually I am not and I sympathize with other similarly incompetent?

Also as a last note - in my current business we have a policy of never giving any estimates to customers just because we don't know and we don't want to lie. We just try do our job and deliver whenever we're ready.

YAAAAAAAAAAS.
Phil Galfond is a boss.

The latest:

https://www.runitonce.eu/news/6-from...-9-20-16_1-six

Cliffs:
Becoming a streamer gets you additional rakeback
4 poker streaming levels
Level one gives you 50% rakeback
Level 4 gives you 110%+ rakeback - I.e. you get paid for playing
Levels depend on how many hours of watched play time you achieve: 10 hours equals 10 people watching one hour of your stream or 5 people watching 2 hrs, etc
This is just one rewards programme - if you aren’t interested in streaming, there will be another programme announced in the future

Wow... just wow.

I mean it was not what i was expecting... but sadly not in good way.

LOL

This seem so bad if i get it right.

Basically: "If you don't have hardware or ability to stream, don't want build audience for steam or stream at all you are capped massively on rakeback"

Sure others rooms give sponsored pros some deals ect. but they don't make it their official rakeback policy/publishing on blog post to everyone to see that they are making massively less rakeback then someone else because they are streaming poker room for x hours.

Plus:
*Viewbots abuse
*Noob not understanding delay and getting "stolen" money from.

This seem ambicious idea in wrong direction for me personally.
I guess idea is to make room most streamed one and gain players that way?

Basically saying to any full time regular "if you don't stream you get 50%-110% less rakeback" super publicly.

Wrong about the last part sir. Math is fun

So, this is kind of like getting people to advertise the site for an almost free cost to the them?

And then if the site gets some momentum and it takes off, I guess only a small proportion of the initial streamers keep their customers, so the total rakeback to those initial streamers for the site drops.

Seems like a plan.

I would liked to see something more like partner program, get x viewers regularly (and have some decent chat activity) and get in our team rio streamers or something. So only people who actually want to build audience and stream get this extra rakeback and are advertisers for room.

This will get just ton of crap streamers with 1-10 viewers and very bad quality streams who did not know how to stream before and are streaming only for extra rakeback with no intention to put out decent content in any way or shape.

I mean, that's what traditional affiliate marketing is.

I've always wondered how effective streaming is as an advertising tool. Given that most twitch viewers are Americans and of the ones that aren't a big % are underage. Plus outside of really big events the viewership numbers for poker are really low. IDK curious what data they have on this, my instinct is that it's not that great of an angle.

There aren't many cash game streamers that get many views. On the top of my head there is innerpsy (he's payed to stream by ps or he wouldn't do it), Jnandez (to promote himself/training site), 1nvoker (what was the reason for streaming such high stakes a few weeks back? was selling something?), and zerospoker (selling his training videos).
So it seems most cash game viewers are russian, which is actually a pretty big poker market but I don't know how easy it is to deposit/cashout for bringing potential new russian players right now.

All the other cash game streamers get minimal viewing from what I've seen.

I played on Stars in the early early days back when Paradise Poker and Planet Poker were still around. I don't recall any bugs or unstable software back then. I think it just reflects the fact that Stars hired better people at every layer of the company, programmers included. I don't know what's going on with Party Poker spaghetti code

Planet poker had some slightly troublesome ones lol:

https://www.datamation.com/entdev/ar...e-Security.htm