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Old 12-12-2013, 05:25 PM   #1
Joe Tall
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Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

Link to article vis USPoker.com: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

Iovation was also formerly involved with legal US site, Ultimate Poker, as posted here in NVG last May: Iovation, UltimatePoker and UB (Ultimate Poker drops Iovation 5/9)

Per that thread, Ultimate Poker did the right thing and dumped them: Ultimate Poker Dumps Iovation following Concerns Over UB Ties

Everyone should watch: UltimateBeat - too much to lose and if you do, you will find the leadership of Ivoation heavily involved in the Ultimate Bet Scam.

Iovation Leadership: https://www.iovation.com/company/leadership


If you want to do something about it here:

1. Go to the PayPal website.
2. Click "Contact Us" at the bottom of any page.
3. Click "Contact Customer Service."
4. Click "Continue" and follow the instructions.

Pick any topics and send them this form letter:

________________________________
Hi,

I am disgusted to discover that your privacy policy reserves the right to share my private personal information with a company called Iovation Inc. (USA).

Iovation Inc was established by the former operators of online poker sites Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet. These sites were knowingly operated to commit theft of tens of millions of dollars from their customers.

I want you to stop sharing "IP and hardware information" about my computer with this organisation.

Sincerely,
___________________________________

Thanks to PokerAddict and another at 2p2 for this info above.

Direct link to PP privacy policy: Click Here.



EDIT:
Quote:
It might have more impact if we send the letter here as well:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy517 View Post
Paypal's CEO:

David Marcus
david.marcus@paypal.com
@davidmarcus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr0n3 View Post
aup@paypal.com is where you report sales, transactions, or websites that violate PayPal policy. I sent the form letter via the method in the OP and got a automated response with that email in the wall of text. Seems like directly writing to that email will at least get your message read by a real person...

Last edited by Mike Haven; 12-17-2013 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 12-12-2013, 05:38 PM   #2
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

Very Very Bad
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Old 12-12-2013, 05:51 PM   #3
PizzaBob
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

Thank you for sharing this information.
Sending Paypal an email now informing them that I'm honestly disgusted.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:02 PM   #4
dougmanct
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

+10000

This needs to be front page, "take action" news on 2+2 for everyone.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:06 PM   #5
Brilliant27
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

Interesting stuff
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:09 PM   #6
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

I like this topic for the contact us email to Paypal...

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Old 12-12-2013, 06:28 PM   #7
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

Out of curiosity... how is “IP and hardware information about the device (device ID)” disclosure a bad thing?

They don't appear to have access to any other information, specially "Financial in Nature" information.

Isn't "device reputation" a good thing? or is it a hatred for the board itself?
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:36 PM   #8
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

I put mine under 'what gambling activities does PAYPAL prohibit'

and added the following line to the cut and paste ->

They now verify location of access and person ip address for gambling sites.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:40 PM   #9
Joe Tall
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchu18 View Post
Out of curiosity... how is “IP and hardware information about the device (device ID)” disclosure a bad thing?

They don't appear to have access to any other information, specially "Financial in Nature" information.

Isn't "device reputation" a good thing? or is it a hatred for the board itself?
You have all the right to trust Iovation.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:55 PM   #10
MSchu18
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Tall View Post
You have all the right to trust Iovation.
so then it's the later... merely a hatred of the board itself?

I was just curious as to why a heavily regulated financial company (PP) would conspire to defraud.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:01 PM   #11
Bobo Fett
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchu18 View Post
so then it's the later... merely a hatred of the board itself?

I was just curious as to why a heavily regulated financial company (PP) would conspire to defraud.
"merely a hatred" makes it sound like some kind of petty personal issue - I think it's more like a distrust of ties to those believed to be extremely shady individuals.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:13 PM   #12
MSchu18
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
"merely a hatred" makes it sound like some kind of petty personal issue - I think it's more like a distrust of ties to those believed to be extremely shady individuals.
well.. that is true, I stand corrected on my statement.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:54 PM   #13
ElevenGrover
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

It would be nice if Annie Duke, Phil Hellmuth and other poker players who have financial stakes in iovation disclose their interest and then divest. The evidence is irrefutable that players were significantly underpaid and Pierson's aggressive strategy to obfuscate and underpay put Ultimatebet into a tailspin that led to empty coffers on Black Friday. There are other well known pros with shares who should also divest.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:14 PM   #14
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

Sent!
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:24 PM   #15
RikaKazak
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

Paypal sent me some automated stupid FAQ that related to absolutely nothing. It was obvious they didn't even read my email. So I resent the email (as a reply to the automated response) so everyone else might have to do that also.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:24 PM   #16
FieryJustice
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

Sent.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:38 PM   #17
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

one can also file a formal complaint with paypal, which is what i did

btw even as a german they are sending my information to iovation, this is concering everyone
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:40 PM   #18
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

If someone knowingly does business with a former scammer it puts themselves very close to that level.

Paypal which from my understanding has a decent history shouldn't try to tarnish their good name by doing any sort of business with this sort.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 12-17-2013 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:45 PM   #19
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

In.

Out of curiosity, what are some of Iovation's top competitors? (e.g. who did UltimatePoker turn to after severing its ties?)
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:41 PM   #20
ElevenGrover
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

Device reputation is not strictly a necessity and some would say iovation's implementation is not exactly rocket science. Pokerstars developed similar capabilities inhouse without too much trouble. Kount is a competitor firm though.

What Paypal (and others) should be asking is if Pierson was so willing to lie and steal against his own customer base, how can they ever trust him to safeguard their reputation? How can they ever be sure he isn't using his access to their system to perpetrate further fraudulent activities against their customers?
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:47 PM   #21
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElevenGrover View Post
Device reputation is not strictly a necessity and some would say iovation's implementation is not exactly rocket science. Pokerstars developed similar capabilities inhouse without too much trouble. Kount is a competitor firm though.
Cool, that helps. I sometimes wonder if having an outside group (rather than an in-house operation) is done simply for show. Otherwise, it might look like the company acts as its own check-and-balance.

Quote:
What Paypal (and others) should be asking is if Pierson was so willing to lie and steal against his own customer base, how can they ever trust him to safeguard their reputation? How can they ever be sure he isn't using his access to their system to perpetrate further fraudulent activities against their customers?
Although not verbatim, these are precisely the thoughts I submitted in my email to PayPal. The fox is guarding the chicken coop.

Hell, it wouldn't be the worst thing to add EG's comment to the boilerplate that JimmyLegs wrote in case anyone is doing a copy-and-paste.
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Old 12-13-2013, 02:34 AM   #22
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but I thought Iovation is now a huge company that tons of websites use, including basically every poker site. Is it any surprise that PayPal uses them too?

Don't get me wrong, I definitely don't approve and I'm glad that UP gave them the boot recently. Perhaps this effort should have a broader scope and target others using Iovation services.

As an aside, PayPal is an awful company in its own right and also enjoys stealing peoples' money.
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:14 AM   #23
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

Joe Tall, while I respect you and think your activism is great, we shouldn't bother with form letters through the Contact Us page.

Those messages are read by low-level support, and nobody of consequence will ever see it.

Our time would be better spent tracking down the office that might have some ability to end their contract with Iovation, and send a clear and concise letter there. Perhaps we should include a free DVD of UltimateBeat for them to watch.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 12-17-2013 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 12-13-2013, 05:33 AM   #24
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Press Gang View Post
one can also file a formal complaint with paypal, which is what i did

btw even as a german they are sending my information to iovation, this is concering everyone
I did this as well. Generally in Europe a financial services complaint has to be investigated to some extent ie go through a formal process, rather than just responded to by a best fit form letter.
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Old 12-13-2013, 05:48 AM   #25
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Re: Paypal Discloses Iovation (UltimateBet Scam connection) Relationship in Privacy Policy

Quote:
Originally Posted by SrslySirius View Post
Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but I thought Iovation is now a huge company that tons of websites use, including basically every poker site.
It is not used on PokerStars, and it is no longer used on Full Tilt Poker.
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