I don't think that's a good decision, but at least now we're going to see how the market/ecosystem feels about it.

#1 does HHs and all the software that comes with it, #2 doesn't. Nobody is forced to play on the platform they don't agree with.

I am afraid that the rate of improvement will be much slower now without HM or PT tools available for study.

Emphasis mine.

2+2ers are savvy, diligent and generally understand the risks associated of playing on a site that is not transparent (i.e. no hand histories) My biggest concern is for the average player. They are being told that they are being made safer by these changes yet the exact opposite is happening. I think the biggest thing that we can all do is to tell every poker player who will listen about the importance of hand histories, how they have been beneficial throughout the history of online poker and ensure that everyone is made aware of the increased risk they are taking by playing on a site that does not write hand histories.

Tell everyone that you know who plays online poker and have them tell everyone they know who plays online poker. We need to spread the word so that everyone is aware and can at least make informed decisions!

-Derek

If hand histories become available, both HM and PT will allow for them to be imported for your review.

So they replied to my email with this poor reply.


With this kind of vague and worthless answer i followed up with an additional email.

Next on PartyPoker: We are increasing rake, since if you think about it, more rake is better.

thnks for the info: obviously will stop playing there untill/if they resolve this!

I am extremely confidant I could coordinate a collusion team to play 10k-50k hands on Party Poker and cheat subtly and get away with it. I have never done this because it's unethical and there would be real player victims whom would lose money.

Would party poker be willing to put up money for charity and fully compensate all players whom were affected if I do this? After all if you catch the team then it's proof your security team might by up to par. And if you don't it might make you reconsider your 100% trust in your security department.

Rob Yong states if something is amiss it's on my shoulders and I take full responsibility... but without hand histories no one would ever know if something is amiss. Furthermore we've seen how Mr. Yong takes responsibility when a controversial topic comes up such as him sponsoring "house players" to fill guarantees. He puts his head in the sand and doesn't answer any questions.

i think that's a dumb idea and people should just boycott party if they do this instead. not even necessarily to hurt party, but to protect your own ****ing selves.

let this be like the 3rd major management decision in their operating history that causes their market share to tank, since they're apparently so hellbent on destroying themselves and whatever goodwill they've built up

Great post. Anyone remember the bot ring sharing hole cards? This allowed them to unfairly calculate their equity. Example, "friend" folded two clubs preflop, therefore bot knows it is more or less likely to hit a flush. End result every bot ran "above EV" over large samples. It took a twoplustwo sleuth to expose them.

Party has a Discord channel with a feedback section and I haven't really noticed much negative feedback about the changes. There were some excellent points made here and I'm sure they are keeping track but it would be useful to add it there too since it is supposed to be a channel for the players to respond

Pretty much all the options are offered; pick your place (not so easy or possible for all countries). I like permanent nicks and permanent notes function with good colour coding (it is sad to see many sites with a poor selection of colours and no ability to create them yourself like one can at Stars and can use a lot of them) and a simple house hud.

As the notes function will be removed, I won't be playing there as it leads to extra work as one needs to do it primitively or hope for some software that helps there and is okay -- only in that case there is still a possibility to play here but when not getting even the session stats (or a running 24-hour stats), it takes the other half away of the use of notes and so to have a more interesting game when knowing how tight or even how aggro someone is instead of playing it blindly but if sitting there tracking one table.

The main idea of the HUD is that one can play more than one table, as the HUD does the primitive tracking. One plays only one table in live games and that is what they are after in online poker also? What do the investors think about that?

The HHs for players are not vital and I rather take the permanent player names than the HHs. Having both but no HUD allowed, perhaps, and maybe the HHs can be random so the players can police the games. One's own HHs is nice as it is nice to see one's stats and HHs and that could be compared to the random population.

The HUD softwares with hundreds of stats are just too much and they have to go. It is mostly up to the sites to police the games. The security has improved from what it was in the past. Players still can be given a possibility to police the games and a 3rd party police could be introduced.

If some people use illegal softwares, they risk getting banned and generally they do. A house HUD helps here also till then to give the cheats less of an edge (and more interesting gaming and multitabling).

I know this is a joke / meme post about rake but
on recent jeff podcast with Rob yong he said "He thinks partypoker rake is very fair and maybe even a bit low in some areas - very hard to compete if you raise prices though so doesn't think party will be raising rake "

Somewhat scary that a guy with a lot of power at partypoker thinks rake might be low in some areas but maybe comforting knowing if they raise it its a negative lol



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As for HHs being removed Rob seems very ignorant to online players needs/wants , mentions how he thinks everyone should be playing with their real name instead of a Alias to make it more like live poker - He thinks the note system should not exist and 'hates the fact you can write a note on a player and not have to use your head to remember those things' - So the odds of him changing his mind and allowing downloadable hand histories seems very low

The chance of internal superusers being able to proceed without external inspection is now assured.

With no convincing reason put forward by the site why this unpopular decision is being introduced.

Is that a rat I can smell?

And PP rake is already higher than the much hated and maligned Stars rake.

As if you can't just pull out your phone and make a note on a reg in a live game. I know I do that.

global poker in the usa doesn't either and it has one shady rng.

Its ridiculous to think that "the players" can regulate a site in a solid manner.

This is not a HH issue this is a regulation issue which will not be solved by making everybody a regulator.
And in addition its not all positives having HHs.

^this post is complete nonsense and you should be embarassed for having written it

And how's the rakeback on stars compared to party?

+1

Is there a way for HEM/PT4 to not allow import of HHs other than those played/observed by the player? Lot of players use datamined HHs and and use the trackers in a way that violates the sites TOS. Not only on Party ofc. So are there any tools to stop this?

I ran the math the other day and based on 33k hands at PP 25nl FF and 130k hands of Stars 25nlz Stars with 0% RB was better than Party worh 20% RB. Party was marginal better at 30% and significantly better if you can get to the 40% tier.

Sect7G,

Just no.

+1 to all of OP. This seems like an ill thought out plan.

We need transparency now more than ever in online poker. Taking HH away from players is a huge backwards step. Phil Galfond recently created a new site and choose to have HH available to players for exactly this reason.

Rule changes need to be enforceable. I get the impression Party is the nut worst site right now for "black hat 3rd party tools", this is due to the policies that they have implemented so far - and this change is only going to make it worse.



This is actually wrong. Party made a change around 2 years ago that means all tables are anon unless you are dealt into a hand, successfully stopping data-mining.

lol at OP making this about "game security" and "protecting the players" when it's obvious they can't sell as many of their products if this isn't reversed. Pretty sure if removing hand histories cured cancer OP would still make this thread.

I know right, proper scare mongering as well.