As you can see I'm new to 2+2 and forums in general. So I don't know chainsaw... but I DO know common sense and common sense + the known facts disagree. As for your not trusting my source, take it or leave it. But please be sure to get back to this thread and comment once all comes out and everything I said here is confirmed.

Redlocks,

You don't seem to be very reasonable here. You are asserting facts, and that there is "no longer any debate" about these facts when you refuse to reveal the source of your alleged facts.

If you want to keep your alleged sources secret, that's fine, but you can't be angry when people don't trust what you are saying because of it. From our point of view, you are an incredibly biased participant in this discussion who is simultaneously only providing us with hearsay information that benefits yourself.

If you are a tournament player and are defending this bozo for any reason you need to have your head examined. Facts are he took chip(s) off the table at the end of the tournament knowing full well especially after the Borgata incident that is clearly wrong. He has been in numerous tournaments and now all his cashes should be suspect. He needs to be banned from ALL future tournaments to send a clear message this BS will not be tolerated by the casinos

How does taking a single chip off of a table after play was concluded relate at all to what happened at the Borgota?

Again... Some of you need to stop throwing stones at this guy until solid information is released.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using 2+2 Forums

ZK,

I believe every thing you said until anything different comes out after investigation .

I see many pro comes out to defend this kind of incidence and this kind of scumbags !!

Even this was for souvenir this should be dealt with very hard punishment due to potential of misuse in future event.

Do you think it is possible that a heavier or lighter punishment might be appropriate to apply here? Or is this the only possible resolution that is acceptable here?

Is there any information that might come to light that might change your mind on this being the perfect resolution?

+1

IMO he should be 86'd from WSOP events for atleast a year. Whatever reason he gives for taking the chip or chips does not change the fact that it is theft and there is a possibility that the chip or chips could be used for cheating in a future tourney. The TDs need to crack down on any possible ways to cheat inorder to help deter future attempts.

I dont see how they can take his prize money away unless they review tapes and see him introduced chips out of pocket.
As far as a penalty in future events I think 1 year is about right but maybe an example needs to be made on a permaban to prevent send message this cant be tolerated.
To justify and defend what he did is inexcusable as a major rule was broken akin to taking chips out of the dealer rack or out of a player stack and leaving the table

You've been a member for more than a year.

If you don't know who Allen "chainsaw" Kessler is than you have absolutely no credibility in NVG.

Is your middle initial S?

Redlocks name is Zach Kessler ironic isnt it-lol. But I 100% believe what he has said

I know but I want to know if his middle initial is S

It is pretty funny his last name is Kessler and he doesn't know who chainsaw is.

Lusardi started out taking "souvenir" chips from the tables, lol.

no he brought souvenirs for the other players. thoughtful chap.

Can this friend post a pic? And maybe some proof that there is no "new car smell" to the table? Perhaps an old Twitter or Facebook post of the table with a date? Also, if he could provide info on each chip in this table (what event, his overall finish, etc) that would be helpful. If he was really making a "Final Table Table" (as I am going to call this henceforth) I think this would help his cause...

Does anyone have current Wsopc, HPT, WPT ect "souvenir" chips that they no longer want to collect for sale all I can find on eBay are "retired" chips?

It doesn't have to relate to Borgata. Would you agree many methods of cheating or stealing exist that could lead to the loss of integrity in poker?

Stop living in a vacuum. Honest mistakes do happen. I will cede that point; However, based on this guys experience and his friends bragging about his "souvenir" collection, this was not an honest mistake.

His intent was to steal at least one large denomination chip from a set of private property chips. The chips are owned by PBKC. They have value both in play and out of play.

Whether he was going to use it in the main, counterfeit it in quantities, or just place it on his wall as a soveneiur is irrelevant. He attempted to steal and got caught.

We shall see how it plays out.

lol sensless... wp sir

I am happy to address all the questions & comments posted above.

Josem – “….but you can't be angry when people don't trust what you are saying”

I am not “angry”. I find it laughable that anyone with common sense that wasn’t raised in a corn field could possibly believe this to be an innocent souvenir OR an isolated occurrence.

bigtex21 – “Whatever reason he gives for taking the chip or chips does not change the fact that it is theft and there is a possibility that the chip or chips could be used for cheating in a future tourney. The TDs need to crack down on any possible ways to cheat inorder to help deter future attempts.”

I agree. The two things I can’t stand are a thief & a cheater. No matter how you look at it, he is absolutely guilty of 1. According to WSOP rules, he is guilty of BOTH.


Florida_Muppets - "His intent was to steal at least one large denomination chip from a set of private property chips. The chips are owned by PBKC. They have value both in play and out of play. Whether he was going to use it in the main, counterfeit it in quantities, or just place it on his wall as a souvenir is irrelevant. He attempted to steal and got caught."

Agreed. And if anyone wants to say I’m bias, OK. But I do have an immediate & first party interest in this outcome as it affects me directly. Again, no reasonable mind could just find this all kosher.


Fish Taco – “You've been a member for more than a year. If you don't know who Allen "chainsaw" Kessler is than you have absolutely no credibility in NVG.”

If you would look a bit further, you would see that I have only been on this site once when I signed up & once to place a post. Sorry if I’ve had better things to do than get familiar with your 2+2 handles. In fact, I couldn’t tell you the name of even a single user name. Not interested. Bottom line is NONE of that has any bearing on the case at hand. I’m simply giving first hand info that will be shown accurate when they allow you to know the facts from the official source. If you question my credibility & don’t want to believe it, lol, that’s OK. At the end of the day you will have zero influence on the outcome. More rational heads will prevail.
**But it is kinda ironic that it was Allen Kessler. Lol.

This is an excellent follow up question, and pretty similar to what I said at the table when this friend of his was explaining all this about his 'Souvenir Chip Table.' My response verbatim, was that if he could provide immediate photographic proof that he has this collector's piece at his home...and that he's just kind of a memorabilia junkie, it would go very far in exonerating him or at least reducing any punishment handed down. If it's true, I would assume he's had the common sense to clear that hurdle in the first 24 hours after it happened.

Probably the funniest comment on this thread. Boy...has Lusardi ever done to the name 'Lusardi' in poker what Sandusky did to the name 'Sandusky' in football, or what?

Kudos to you for having the sensibility to grant this kid Chan the benefit of the doubt. I know, personally, how it feels to be wrongfully accused of something, or have something happen to me where I didn't know how to unravel...and once you fall into the 2+2 'blender' of scandal-building...it sometimes just grows to epic proportions, and is fueled by people who have zero knowledge on the person or the subject being talked about. I find the poker community is one of the most 'lynch mob' members of society. And it sucks...because I know a LOT of really great people who I've made friends in the poker world over the last ten years...and I wish players would be more 'us' against 'them' and stick together more than what we seem to see on a daily basis. It's like one players slips up, or makes an error in judgment...and everyone gathers in a circle above a pit of flesh devouring pigs (think: scene from Hannibal when Cordell pushes that wheel chair bound psychopath over the side) as the person being discussed is lowered, one cynical comment at a time...into the pit. It's brutal.

Come on. Can't believe a white guy with dreds.

Ha! Nitty game indeed! People rebuying for like $40 over and over! Nitty is an understatement! To be honest...i played 2/5 the whole night before waiting on my friend Claudia to finish up....she did, 15th, taking a brutal beat, and the 2/5 game was insane...people playing like they all had a money tree in their back yard. It was crazy, and I took some wild swings. Didn't feel like a repeat of that. And we just decided to play for those $500 High-hand promotions all day (she won one...I didn't) before leaving. We like to drive at night...no traffic, better mileage, and no sun glare to interfere with watching movies on my dashboard stereo! Lucked out on the running out of gas thing...a cop showed up about 10 minutes later and helped me out. Okay...so I'm curious Muppets...which guy were you at the table? And which 'neighbor' are you talking about that got stacked?

Monk

Fish Taco. I won't get in the gutter with you. No sense in it. Before you call me an idiot, it may behoove you to know that I had on my Bose head set, and was using the voice recorder to type out my comments. You could, I suppose make a case for watching movies while I drive...but (a) my ADHD makes me an incredible multi-tasker (b) I actually woke Claudia up to tell her to put on her seat belt, because I DO care about my friends (c)'considering my history?' what history is that? The history that includes me raising thousands from my 1900+ distribution email list for the Tsunami victims in 2005, the Katrina victims in 2006, the tornado victims in Alabama in 2010, the Japan Tsunami/Earthquake victims, the Haitian earthquake, or the hospital/funeral bills for former WSOP dealer and floor person Casey Jones? Are those the part of the history you're talking about? I know...I'm probably the most uncaring person in poker, aren't I? (d) You want to beat that dead horse that is my staking deals? Why? Because like so many in your peer group it makes you furious that someone with modest stats like me is able to essentially raise 100% of my buyins for a 50% freeroll? And decide its incumbent upon you to deem me a ripoff artist and my investors as a bunch of idiots and/or victims? Sorry Fishy Taco...I make no attempts to apologize for my own personal, non-conforming to 2+2 members' staking standards, staking deals. My investors? They have been paid for their investments on 75% of the deals they've backed me on. They aren't in as a 'business' but more so as a fun little sweat on a guy they've gotten to know the past decade or two through the many ventures they've been involved with me in. A lot of these people are millionaires, business owners, and are brilliant financial minds. They don't need a bunch of people who they could buy and sell 100 times over telling them how 'stupid' they are. The fun little 350+ thread on my Facebook wall this week was actually a lot of fun. Watching people demonstrate for the entire social media world just how envious they are and how that envy leads to such virulent spite-filled posts was kind of a study in human nature more than anything. If I were doing something 'unethical' or 'scammish' do you think I would leave my setting on Facebook where ANYONE could leave a comment? Do you think I would leave all the comments on my wall? When I could easily delete them as soon as they appeared? That I wouldn't block the guys making toxic comments? Just a little something to think about Mr. Fish Taco. I don't know who you are (maybe I do, if I saw your face) and frankly, it doesn't matter. You are free to speak your mind, I respect that. But maybe you could take a shot at actually getting to know me, the person, before undressing me on 2+2 for a bunch of our peers to read? Ya think?