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Old 06-18-2012, 07:59 PM   #2601
DogFace
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

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Originally Posted by Deeze Nutz View Post
Honest question. What is it that people find in Hellmuth to root for? I understand people have different tastes, and I am not criticizing anyone for that. Like whoever you want. I just don't see it with Hellmuth. Nobody can deny his ability. If you forget how good he is, just wait 5 seconds and he will remind you. If he didn't ***** and moan constantly, I might be able to root for him.

I don't find Ivey particularly likeable at the table either, because he mostly just sits there. However, he doesn't berate and belittle people either. I just find PH's antics off-putting. They are OK entertainment on TV for a while, but then it gets old. I know everyone says how great of a guy PH is outside the game, but that doesn't mitigate his behavior IMO. Just wondered what others think. Why do you root for PH?
1. Entertainment value - He's an amusing character at the table. Maybe THE most entertaining top pro in terms of banter, blow-ups, and chatter. You just never really know what he's going to say or if/when he's going to snap.

2. Decent person - Unlike a lot of poker players, Hellmuth doesn't seem like a complete sleaze off the table. I'm sure he has an ego the size of a zeppelin and would sell his first born child for a 13th bracelet, but on some level he's just a likeable family man (albeit one who is juggling a huge ego and inferiority complex at the same time).

3. Legend factor - 12 bracelets. Why not make it 13? People root for Hellmuth to win bracelets for the same reason that they rooted for Barry Bonds to hit home runs. It's fun to watch people break records and push the game to new levels.
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Old 06-18-2012, 07:59 PM   #2602
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

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Gooooooooooo Ivey!!!!

I just envision Hellmuth off the felt as being a really good guy, that's what makes me like him. I hope he finishes 2nd though. I don't really like his table antics, but sometimes he's hysterical. I loved the episode of poker after dark, when he pretty much blinded off vs. esfandari and laak, priceless.
agree he has had some hysterical moments i think my favorite is in the main event when he kepted losing to QT. He was on the biggest monkey tilt i ever seen and ended calling someone Northern European Idiot legendary quote.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:00 PM   #2603
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

I find PH's insane rants hilarious.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:00 PM   #2604
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

Yep Hellmuth vs. Ivey HU please! It's pretty interesting how this forum went from absolutely detesting Hellmuth to rooting for him and hoping he ships everything he plays. Go Phil and Phil!
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:05 PM   #2605
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

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Originally Posted by Deeze Nutz View Post
Honest question. What is it that people find in Hellmuth to root for? I understand people have different tastes, and I am not criticizing anyone for that. Like whoever you want. I just don't see it with Hellmuth. Nobody can deny his ability. If you forget how good he is, just wait 5 seconds and he will remind you. If he didn't ***** and moan constantly, I might be able to root for him.

I don't find Ivey particularly likeable at the table either, because he mostly just sits there. However, he doesn't berate and belittle people either. I just find PH's antics off-putting. They are OK entertainment on TV for a while, but then it gets old. I know everyone says how great of a guy PH is outside the game, but that doesn't mitigate his behavior IMO. Just wondered what others think. Why do you root for PH?
I think Hellmuth got better in the last years. He still gets frustrated when he loses , but he doesn't berate people like before.

I always liked him even though I cringed at some of his antics. Maybe it's because you can tell he is not a bad guy, far from it. Who wants to watch a Superman anyway? I always prefered the heros with flaws. It's more human.

Maybe it's because he became such an underdog. People kept saying the game left him behind. He became the "old" guy who can't keep up with the new generation of elite players. They have technology on their side, they train more by playing millions of hands, and he is the guy who was finished but who kept fighting. It's always a good story in the movies, what's not to like in real life? It's Rocky IV.

Maybe it's because he was always confident about himself, even when everyone was putting him down. Maybe it's because he never let anyone tell him what he is and what he is not, and kept trying to be the best.

Maybe it's because he cares so much. In english you would say that he "spills his guts out". I prefer the french expression : "he puts his guts on the table". When I see someone that put his guts on the table, I want to root for him. And that's Hellmuth in a nutshell.

Last edited by leolauzon; 06-18-2012 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:05 PM   #2606
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

link please
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:06 PM   #2607
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

He is a interesting fellow Hellmuth. People like Daniel were giving him hard time that the game had past him by. Then it seems he actually listened (hard to believe though) and few players have come out and said he has actually improved alot Shaun Deeb exs. His last wsop was incredible good and seems this one going to be very good also. Its a good debate when Ivey will catch him with braclets if i had to guess he will one day but who knows.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:07 PM   #2608
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

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Originally Posted by OMGDaGagaLady View Post
Yep Hellmuth vs. Ivey HU please! It's pretty interesting how this forum went from absolutely detesting Hellmuth to rooting for him and hoping he ships everything he plays. Go Phil and Phil!
I think he's proven to everyone he's not the terrible player they thought he was.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:08 PM   #2609
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

Damnit when will the stream be up!
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:08 PM   #2610
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***



heads up would be so epic
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:09 PM   #2611
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

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I think he's proven to everyone he's not the terrible player they thought he was.
Hellmuth is an absolutely elite tournament player, but still seems to be a horrible cash game player.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:10 PM   #2612
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

Leulazon that's a good post regarding Hellmuth. He obv has a huge ego, but even so he swallowed his pride and realized that he needed to improve to keep up with today's players. Not a lot of guys are willing to do that after having so much success with a particular style of play. He also worked really hard on his mixed games, as the fields in No Limit are just too big and he realized that he needed to become a better all around player to be able to contend for more bracelets in the shorter field mixed events. How can people hate on that? Last year he finished 2nd three times, including the most prestigious event in poker the 50K players championship. This year he ships and is at the final table again of another prestigious event. Hellmuth rocks.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:10 PM   #2613
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

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Damnit when will the stream be up!
stream starts at 8 players. thats the "official" final table of this event.

kinda lame but thats how they roll
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:10 PM   #2614
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

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heads up would be so epic
ehh does anyone think Hellmuth looks alot like Jerry Yang in that picture?
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:10 PM   #2615
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

So where wtf is the live feed? Schedule says noowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:11 PM   #2616
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

I also wonder why Hellmuth is so liked on the message board, and even though I try to stop myself, I can't help but support him either.

I think it's down to a few reason:
1) Lazy, stupid bastards like myself love to convince themselves that you can be successful at this game just through possessing an innate natural talent. Seeing Phil H make these huge fundamental errors but still be ridiculously successful give me a little hope that maybe I don't need to read boring strategy threads to be good at this game, I can just hope I'm one of those 0.01% people who have the gift.
2)At the end of the day, it's Hellmuth and the old school who first attracted most people to poker, and I have a sense of loyalty to that. Even though I've never played live poker myself, I see those crafty, unethical, deeply shady live players as the 'true' players of the game, and wish them every success.
3)In general people like to see great achievements, **** me, he doesn't need the money, but I support him because it's genuinely nice to see someone do the impossible (slight hyperbole there, obv not impossible to win the amount of bracelets he has)

+ what that guy said a few post up, was a nice post!
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:11 PM   #2617
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

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He is a interesting fellow Hellmuth. People like Daniel were giving him hard time that the game had past him by. Then it seems he actually listened (hard to believe though) and few players have come out and said he has actually improved alot Shaun Deeb exs. His last wsop was incredible good and seems this one going to be very good also. Its a good debate when Ivey will catch him with braclets if i had to guess he will one day but who knows.
I don't disagree with any of your post but the whole notion that "the game has passed Helmuth by" is just more hate from ******s. Are there really people dumb enough to think that Hellmuth wouldn't be able to adapt to the new style of play? This is a dude who came on the scene and absolutely dominated the game for like ten years. Despite what many of us would like to think, poker just isn't that hard, especially for a guy who has already proven himself to be world class. I crack up every time some douche acts like poker is high-level mathematics.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:14 PM   #2618
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

Gogo Mori + the Phils!

also, odysseus: i don't know which levels u crush with ease, but for me poker is hard, and focus/mental stability is required every session. but yeah, the mathematics of it isn't that hard. it's the other parts. But I guess you are super regging the 5K PlO games for 19bb/100 or smt, nice going!
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:14 PM   #2619
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

No live stream until they get down to 8
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:14 PM   #2620
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

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I don't disagree with any of your post but the whole notion that "the game has passed Helmuth by" is just more hate from ******s. Are there really people dumb enough to think that Hellmuth wouldn't be able to adapt to the new style of play? This is a dude who came on the scene and absolutely dominated the game for like ten years. Despite what many of us would like to think, poker just isn't that hard, especially for a guy who has already proven himself to be world class. I crack up every time some douche acts like poker is high-level mathematics.
Iam not sure if he dominated the game as you think. If i remember correct most of his early years playing at wsop after he won the main event he had to play on stakes. There could ofcourse be many reason why he was staked but doesnt sound like someone who dominated the game needed to be staked at least to me.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:15 PM   #2621
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

deep down everybody knows he is the best live tournament player of all time but he wont get the full credit he deserves from the internet nerds because they cant see past there pi$$ bottles .
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:17 PM   #2622
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

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Hellmuth is an absolutely elite tournament player, but still seems to be a horrible cash game player.
I've never understood this concept though. If he is good enough to crush tourneys then surely he is good enough to realise how awful some of the most simplest things he does in cash games are?

I just don't get it. If he is on this elite level of thinking tournament wise that takes a lot of Poker skill/knowledge how can he not at least play sort of solid in cash games? We've seen the arguments like 'He plays vs really good players' - I agree some of the HSP tables are tough, but anyone who can beat a decent level online and has some good live experience would at least be able to sit there and play a solid TAG game - but he just spews and plays really bad.

So are tourneys just easier? It makes no sense to me. I play cash and do half decent at tourneys when I choose to play them, get a decent understanding of shoving ranges etc and with a soft field and some run good you can crush because you play 10000x better postflop than everyone else. The two games are obviously different, but it's still NLH - how can he be so insanely good at one and so bad at another?

This isn't a post bashing him btw, I love the guy.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:18 PM   #2623
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

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Iam not sure if he dominated the game as you think. If i remember correct most of his early years playing at wsop after he won the main event he had to play on stakes. There could ofcourse be many reason why he was staked but doesnt sound like someone who dominated the game needed to be staked at least to me.
http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=117

scroll to the bottom of the page and work your way up
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:19 PM   #2624
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If the 2 Phil's go HU, this thread will get to 5k posts tonight.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:21 PM   #2625
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Re: ***OFFICIAL WSOP SWEAT THREAD***

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I've never understood this concept though. If he is good enough to crush tourneys then surely he is good enough to realise how awful some of the most simplest things he does in cash games are?

I just don't get it. If he is on this elite level of thinking tournament wise that takes a lot of Poker skill/knowledge how can he not at least play sort of solid in cash games? We've seen the arguments like 'He plays vs really good players' - I agree some of the HSP tables are tough, but anyone who can beat a decent level online and has some good live experience would at least be able to sit there and play a solid TAG game - but he just spews and plays really bad.

So are tourneys just easier? It makes no sense to me. I play cash and do half decent at tourneys when I choose to play them, get a decent understanding of shoving ranges etc and with a soft field and some run good you can crush because you play 10000x better postflop than everyone else. The two games are obviously different, but it's still NLH - how can he be so insanely good at one and so bad at another?

This isn't a post bashing him btw, I love the guy.
Well what i think is when we were watching him playing cash games on tv like HSP or PAD he was playing for the camera. So i dont think its right to judge his cash level skills from those shows.
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