Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views, and gossip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-03-2017, 05:56 PM   #1526
Bobo Fett
2+2 Ad Man
 
Bobo Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 45,807
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey View Post
You did exactly this in my thread about the ethics of poker winnings to charity. You dismissed my points as nonsense and didn't give me the chance to explain my points. Then you or another mod used your TTHRIC get out clause to close the thread.
Wow. Just...holy, ****ing WOW.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...arity-1677478/

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey View Post
I am back because.....

I would dearly love to respond to all of REG's points about ethics that they kindly posted links to ITT, and to make some kind of conclusion of my thoughts on the issues.

But to do this properly and to write it in an unambiguous way it will take me several hours and the post as a guesstimate will be something like 2000 to 4000 words long.

So can a mod please give me one off permission to write a post of up to 5000 words. Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by R*R View Post
PM sent. Since you started this thread I will allow you to do this. I have replied to your PM. You are still obligated to the 100 word rule in all other threads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey View Post
This is my last post ITT, I am using up my more than 100 words one time, now.<snip>

I won't be posting the long post now regarding REG's links or my other thoughts on a range of connected issues. The reason for this is that a small minority of posters ITT are displaying a form of nastiness that is unpleasant and only serves to be destructive.<snip>

That's it from me on this thread, I will ignore all future hatred against me from the small minority of posters who think it's fun and acceptable to behave that way and I wish everyone including them much peach and love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by R*R View Post
TTHRIC
That's the conversation that led to the end of the thread. Of course that's not all of the posts, and your last post isn't quoted in its entirety, but I've provided a link to the thread if anyone wants to read through it again.

So, two things:

The thread was closed because you said you were done with it.

Another mod closed the thread; I had nothing to do with it. I'd have happily debated you on the subject until the cows came home, as I felt (and still feel) that your stance on the issue was ridiculous.

For you to come in here now and suggest that I "used your TTHRIC get out clause to close the thread" is insulting. I'd say it was an outright lie, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you both forgot how it ended and couldn't be bothered to go back and check before making such an accusation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey View Post
A clique often creates a group mentality that is enacted upon by individuals.
Yes, I understand this point that seems to be a theme in several of your posts. And as I said: "But I think more often than not, people are individually making their own judgements on others' posts - just because a lot of posters line up against someone who "questions convention" doesn't mean they aren't thinking for themselves, or are doing this out of a need to fit in with the group."

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey View Post
Was not a derail by me, so you were looking for an "offense" to charge me with in place of charging me for another alleged offense. "Can't get him on a), so we'll falsely accuse him on b).
The fact that you can't see how this had many of the hallmarks of your usual derails is part of the problem. The thread wasn't about the legality and morality of unlicensed gambling, it was about an assault of HTK. Was that related to unlicensed gambling? Of course. No one's saying that you take threads about poker and start talking about bananas.

The way it usually starts is somewhat of a subtle thing, really. As I said - "You don't often make a single post that can be easily pointed to as the problem, yet you constantly manage to take threads and turn them into a discussion about your views on something, often tangential to the original topic."

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey View Post
Everyone at certain times takes subjects on small tangents, this is normal because most topics are multi faceted.
Yes, they do. I think I'm actually guilty of it more often than most. But I, as do others, try to take notice when it's happening and not let it get too carried away. Or if others tell me that I'm derailing, I try to take that on board and rein it in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey View Post
Also, your statement above is a gross exaggeration using the word constantly. I do not constantly open up new or deeper areas of a topic, I sometimes do it, as do others.
Use whatever word you like for it. If you'd prefer often or frequently, that's fine. It really doesn't change my point.
Bobo Fett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 06:26 PM   #1527
whosnext
Pooh-Bah
 
whosnext's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: California
Posts: 4,096
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

There is much to digest here regarding the entire SageDonkey experience and the most recent series of posts moved/added to this NVG moderation thread.

Like trying to eat an elephant, I will start with a bite-size morsel of a reply (which I originally posted in another forum):


The view that mods must be circumspect in their posting comes up from time. It is untrue, unfounded, and misguided.

The Powers-That-Be at 2+2 have repeatedly made it clear that becoming a mod in no way curtails or restricts what you can say in any 2+2 forum (including the forum you are a mod in).

Some mods voluntarily tone down the volume or the tenor of their posting but that is neither required nor encouraged. Some mods are uncomfortable with the appearance that their views carry additional weight in lively discussions but everyone should dismiss that misperception.


It sometimes can be difficult to discern if a mod is posting as a regular 2+2 member or specifically as a mod. On occasion when it might be difficult to distinguish, I sometimes post my mod posts in green font.
whosnext is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 06:49 PM   #1528
SageDonkey
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,213
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
Wow. Just...holy, ****ing WOW.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...arity-1677478/








That's the conversation that led to the end of the thread. Of course that's not all of the posts, and your last post isn't quoted in its entirety, but I've provided a link to the thread if anyone wants to read through it again.

So, two things:

The thread was closed because you said you were done with it.

Another mod closed the thread; I had nothing to do with it. I'd have happily debated you on the subject until the cows came home, as I felt (and still feel) that your stance on the issue was ridiculous.

For you to come in here now and suggest that I "used your TTHRIC get out clause to close the thread" is insulting. I'd say it was an outright lie, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you both forgot how it ended and couldn't be bothered to go back and check before making such an accusation.


Yes, I understand this point that seems to be a theme in several of your posts. And as I said: "But I think more often than not, people are individually making their own judgements on others' posts - just because a lot of posters line up against someone who "questions convention" doesn't mean they aren't thinking for themselves, or are doing this out of a need to fit in with the group."


The fact that you can't see how this had many of the hallmarks of your usual derails is part of the problem. The thread wasn't about the legality and morality of unlicensed gambling, it was about an assault of HTK. Was that related to unlicensed gambling? Of course. No one's saying that you take threads about poker and start talking about bananas.

The way it usually starts is somewhat of a subtle thing, really. As I said - "You don't often make a single post that can be easily pointed to as the problem, yet you constantly manage to take threads and turn them into a discussion about your views on something, often tangential to the original topic."


Yes, they do. I think I'm actually guilty of it more often than most. But I, as do others, try to take notice when it's happening and not let it get too carried away. Or if others tell me that I'm derailing, I try to take that on board and rein it in.


Use whatever word you like for it. If you'd prefer often or frequently, that's fine. It really doesn't change my point.
I apologise, the thread was closed on my request, but only because I was facing a lot of hostility from posters. When I responded by saying okay, okay (to them), but give me a chance to explain my points in depth in one long post, you then started to antagonise me to the point where I was spending so much time and energy on fending you off that I became totally exhausted and disillusioned in trying to do what was about 5 hours work for me to write my in depth points which R*R had already authorised me to do so.

So whether you antagonising me was wholly deliberate by you or you just going with the flow so to speak, it had the effect of shutting me down.

I respect your pov on REG and charity giving from poker winnings etc but I also believe that there are many areas relating to it that need a proper airing that may influence people's views. I had a chat to a fellow poker player on the phone yesterday and without prompting him he made some of the same points I'd made on the thread, he also said a couple of other things that I hadn't thought of that shifted my view a few % points towards the viewpoint of you and the majority, and I'm totally happy to shift more if convinced to, but it's a complex subject IMO.

You come across as genuine with your belief that my post on the recent HashTag King thread was a derail. I don't think it was a derail. The thread started with a few posters doing virtual high fives with each other that he got what he deserved etc.

A couple of people said nobody deserves that and it's cowardly and wrong what was done to him, or words to that effect. I then agreed with those people and gave my view on it. I was not the first person to question the validity of the beating he took or the ethics of it.

I was displeased that you then chimed in, not only because I felt you were unfairly accusing me of a derail or of spoiling the thread but also because the issue of beatings, threats or anything outside of the law is germane to the fact that non legally binding financial transactions are common place in poker meaning the (illegal) enforcement aspect of what happened to HashTag King is an important issue.

So I didn't post what I posted to derail the thread, rub anyone the wrong way, or to try to look erudite, I did it because I thought it was necessary to balance off some of the flippant remarks of "he had it coming etc".

I haven't looked today, but on @dougpolk's Twitter feed yesterday he commented on the beating and just like in the thread here a lot of people said he got what was coming to him etc but a few people said it is wrong for that to have happened to him.

So the thread here, including my points, is a normal range of opinions of the incident as per on Twitter which has no real censorship.

Don't get me wrong, of course I must have semi-derailed some threads, everyone has, but it is not anywhere near on the scale that some are accusing me of. From the negative feedback some are giving me, my conclusion is that certain things about my posts, that vary from being "verbose" to "boring" to "obvious" to "going off at a tangent" plus other things that people are not admitting to (e.g. some people hate being challenged about certain poker conventions or poker theory),... that it is often one of the aforementioned or maybe two, possibly more than that, that an individual person does not like, but much like when people have a bad experience in a restaurant or hotel and leave a review on Trip Advisor they will do two things:

1) They will put the boot in and give 1 out of 5 stars because they are angry, when a fairer review by them on balance would be two or maybe three stars.

2) They will state the main thing, it is usually one thing, that was very bad, e.g. the food took 90 minutes to arrive or the staff were rude, but because of their anger and posting a review making them feel better they will also hone in on and exaggerate all manner of very small points to paint a really terrible overall picture.

I am very experienced in the above effect because I own a business that has a Trip Advisor page and have friends also with their own business Trip Advisor page. We all have good overall reviews of 4.5 stars, but it's really common when one thing goes wrong for the customer or it didn't actually go wrong but that's their perception for them to go way overboard about the one specific thing and to bring up lots of small things that are irrelevant or that didn't even happen. For example, someone who didn't like something my company gave them stated so giving their reasons, but amplified their reason why to an extreme level. They then went on to criticise all and sundry about my company from the font I have on my web site to the automated email customers receive when they email at 3am, thanking them for their inquiry. The person also invented some things.

So I get that elements of my posts are disliked by certain people, maybe quite a lot of people, but when I see someone ITT accusing me of walls of text (again, my replies to you are an exception), when I know I post a maximum of 100 words and accusing me of believing that my posts are all enlightening when I've never claimed anything of the sort, then I see the critiquing of me by some people as being like "The Trip Advisor Bad Review Effect".

Clearly this latest exchange between you, I, some other moderators and other people is a huge waste of time for all of us, and for the part I have played in this I apologise to all.

At least all sides know where the land lies. Clearly I didn't know exactly where the land lied 2 or 3 days ago, so moving forwards I will adapt and/or reduce my posts on 2plus2 to fit better with the reality of how things work here.

There is nothing personal here from me against any individual. If it appears that way it isn't. As well as being long winded in my writing and speaking I am also someone that doesn't shy away from standing up for myself or defending a principle if I think it needs defending.

Like many things about me, the above can be a strength as well as a weakness.

Kind regards and much respect and good luck to all.

SageDonkey

Last edited by SageDonkey; 12-03-2017 at 07:01 PM.
SageDonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 07:14 PM   #1529
Popetman
adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 979
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

It's either everyone else is wrong about you and your posts

Or you are wrong

Simple experiment

Delete the SageDonkey account [yeah - everyone else is currently happy with this idea]

Then open a new one, new name

And post

Surely then - you wouldn't get any of these problems - as they were all just targeting you

I would guess Mr SD may fall into the Riggie circle on the Venn diagram of internet poker players

So - yeah - change your SN, and you are good to go - and will never have these issues ever again

Nothing can go wrong
Popetman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 07:45 PM   #1530
ABdeVilliers
self-banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: THE SEA ORG
Posts: 85
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

Bobo Fett, I wish you'd stop embarrassing yourself.

Rogue moderators have been exposed, they're using their positions to further their own agenda.
ABdeVilliers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 07:52 PM   #1531
whosnext
Pooh-Bah
 
whosnext's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: California
Posts: 4,096
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey View Post
.
.
.

At least all sides know where the land lies. Clearly I didn't know exactly where the land lied 2 or 3 days ago, so moving forwards I will adapt and/or reduce my posts on 2plus2 to fit better with the reality of how things work here.

.
.
.
At the risk of re-opening a "resolved" issue, the above quote is hard to believe. In case there is any value in providing some factual information at this point, I provide the following.

Many NVG threads have been derailed by SageDonkey over the recent past. Some of these threads devolved into members arguing with him and pleading with him to stop posting (or at a minimum to improve his posting).

Partially as a response to this feedback NVG mods have warned SageDonkey that he needed to modify his posting style for many months. We have told him that he needed to greatly eliminate his predilection for voluminous annoying devil's-advocate posts which tended to make every thread about him and his views.

SageDonkey was even banned from 2+2 at one point by an NVG mod but the ban was reversed under an agreement that SageDonkey would limit the length and improve the quality of his posts.

To now state that he was unaware how NVG mods and NVG members felt about his posting "style" until 2 or 3 days ago is disingenuous to say the least.

I will end by simply hoping that we have all learned valuable lessons here.
whosnext is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 08:06 PM   #1532
SageDonkey
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,213
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

Quote:
Originally Posted by whosnext View Post
At the risk of re-opening a "resolved" issue, the above quote is hard to believe. In case there is any value in providing some factual information at this point, I provide the following.

Many NVG threads have been derailed by SageDonkey over the recent past. Some of these threads devolved into members arguing with him and pleading with him to stop posting (or at a minimum to improve his posting).

Partially as a response to this feedback NVG mods have warned SageDonkey that he needed to modify his posting style for many months. We have told him that he needed to greatly eliminate his predilection for voluminous annoying devil's-advocate posts which tended to make every thread about him and his views.

SageDonkey was even banned from 2+2 at one point by an NVG mod but the ban was reversed under an agreement that SageDonkey would limit the length and improve the quality of his posts.

To now state that he was unaware how NVG mods and NVG members felt about his posting "style" until 2 or 3 days ago is disingenuous to say the least.

I will end by simply hoping that we have all learned valuable lessons here.
Playing Devil's Advocate is not what I have been recently doing. I have limited the length of posts to 100 words. I haven't been making other people's threads into threads about me.

Like many, you are misinforming on these things or seeing a low frequency of something and stating is as my m.o.

I didn't know exactly how the land lied 2 or 3 days ago, as demonstrated by Gregorio (I didn't give it an enormous amount of thought at the time) and BoboFett both jumping in accusing me a of a derail or going off at a tangent in two separate threads. The two that ABdeVilliers, whom I do not know the identity of, has backed me up on.

This is a change of parameters by mods in what specifically for me, perhaps for everyone, you consider a derail or going off at a tangent.

Look at my last couple of posts: I posted in the Grinding in your 30s/40s thread with totally similar content and views to most of the posters, I posted a short piece about bots on the 5 reasons to not play on Party Poker thread, in response to a couple of posts about bots.

I've posted in the Ways to vastly reduce rake.... thread I started and conceded points that others have made and done so in a civil and respectful way.

Most of my other recent posts have been in the Doug Polk or Joey Ingram threads on topic about those two people and their YouTube and other output.

My other posts have been on threads that I created, so I'm more entitled to shape the content of those ones, as has already been acknowledged.

So the parameters seem to have changed.

I plagiarized my friend's phrase "helicoptered" in my last post. He used it to describe when he was constantly surrounded by floor staff at a London casino for being too chatty at the table in a comp and liberally using his many catchphrases. He said to them, "look at this, they've got security, the SAS and helicopters hovering over me".

This is a bit like how I am being made to feel on this forum.

Last edited by SageDonkey; 12-03-2017 at 08:12 PM.
SageDonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 09:09 PM   #1533
gregorio
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 29,344
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

I never accused you of derailing anything-- try reading better than you post--but you were sure eager to jump in with your long-winded inconsequential posts to keep it going.
gregorio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 09:26 PM   #1534
SageDonkey
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,213
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorio View Post
I never accused you of derailing anything-- try reading better than you post--but you were sure eager to jump in with your long-winded inconsequential posts to keep it going.
They were inconsequential according to you, not to the range of people who posted on the subject.

You were either telling the previous few posters it was a derail, or you were telling me specifically. On reflection, given that you didn't quote my post (even though it was the one immediately above your post), it's more likely you were aiming it at the group above, not just me, but including me.

Either way, you were stepping in unnecessarily IMO. I do remember thinking at the time what the hell are you talking about because it was in the podcast which is why people were discussing it.

Post #8215

Gregorio: "This has to be the worst derail itt so far. Nobody cares."

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2.../index329.html

..... and uradoodooface's reply to you in post #8218

Originally Posted by gregorio View Post
This has to be the worst derail itt so far. Nobody cares.

Why would you wanna break up this convo? This is some of the most interesting and education topics to come in in NVG that I've seen in a while. Most of the time NVG is like TMZ by amateurs. It's fun but this is next level convo imo.

Last edited by SageDonkey; 12-03-2017 at 09:35 PM.
SageDonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 09:47 PM   #1535
gregorio
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 29,344
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

Anyone who's not an idiot already knows plant-based diets aren't necessarily any more healthy than diets that include meat and may require supplements in order to avoid certain nutritional deficiencies. You can make​ that point without using hundreds of words, but why would you even need to have such a tired plant-based diet good/plant-based diet bad discussion in the first place in a poker news, views and gossip forum?

That's the sort of thing you do all of the time. You think you have an intelligent and interesting point to make about any topic that pops into a thread, and end up making relentless bloviated mundane posts that ruin the thread for everyone else, save the three or four other people who choose to engage you.
gregorio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 10:00 PM   #1536
SageDonkey
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,213
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorio View Post
Anyone who's not an idiot already knows plant-based diets aren't necessarily any more healthy than diets that include meat and may require supplements in order to avoid certain nutritional deficiencies. You can make​ that point without using hundreds of words, but why would you even need to have such a tired plant-based diet good/plant-based diet bad discussion in the first place in a poker news, views and gossip forum?

That's the sort of thing you do all of the time. You think you have an intelligent and interesting point to make about any topic that pops into a thread, and end up making relentless bloviated mundane posts that ruin the thread for everyone else, save the three or four other people who choose to engage you.
Ermmm...... because it was a section in the poker podcast that had just been streamed.

5 people were discussing the topic before you posted that it was a derail and nobody cares. About an additional 4 joined the discussion on it afterwards.

All your post above does is confirms your bias against me. It's like really obvious to anyone who reads the thread in question. And you don't just say my posts are average or poor, maybe some are, you go way further than that.

You know when multiple people attack you (attack me that is) it makes one doubt oneself a little. You know, maybe they all have a point.

But well now, if this was a court of law you may as well have just signed your own confession document with your post above.
SageDonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 11:00 PM   #1537
MikkeD
adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,159
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****


Last edited by MikkeD; 12-03-2017 at 11:06 PM. Reason: Because a picture speaks louder than words - or so it is said.
MikkeD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 12:33 AM   #1538
Stupor
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 45
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey View Post

All your post above does is confirms your bias against me.
Your logic is that all the numerous posters on NVG that take issue with your posting must be biased against you. But what can it be apart from your posting which makes them all biased? You think they all are people who know you irl come on here to attack you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey View Post
From the negative feedback some are giving me, my conclusion is that certain things about my posts, that vary from being "verbose" to "boring" to "obvious" to "going off at a tangent" plus other things that people are not admitting to (e.g. some people hate being challenged about certain poker conventions or poker theory),...
Of the above on an annoyance scale I’d score it “verbose” 15%, “boring” 20%, “obvious” (incl. in boring), “going off at a tangent” 15%, “people feeling challenged about poker theory etc.” ZERO %. You do all of those first 4 things a lot and they all definitely do detract from my and clearly others’ enjoyment of reading the forum. But the worst for me is the “spammy argumentativeness” (not being able to let go of an argument, pedantically arguing back and forth about tangential unimportant issues clogging up the thread and having to have the last word) 50%.

Good example is the HTK thread that led me here. Everyone else has their say, with their often imperfect opinions on the matter, sharing their view and in most cases moving on after one or 2 posts. But you just cannot do that. Even before the mods moved all the posts above, how many posts did you make in the HTK thread? You seem incapable of succinctly sharing your opinion and then moving on. The fact the posts are also often verbose, boring, obvious and/or off on a tangent just adds to the issue.
Stupor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 01:21 AM   #1539
gregorio
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 29,344
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey View Post
All your post above does is confirms your bias against me.
I am biased against you like I would be towards any long-winded, self-important, attention-seeking, high-volume bad poster who ruins threads for everybody else.
gregorio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 01:24 AM   #1540
SageDonkey
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,213
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupor View Post
Your logic is that all the numerous posters on NVG that take issue with your posting must be biased against you. But what can it be apart from your posting which makes them all biased? You think they all are people who know you irl come on here to attack you?



Of the above on an annoyance scale I’d score it “verbose” 15%, “boring” 20%, “obvious” (incl. in boring), “going off at a tangent” 15%, “people feeling challenged about poker theory etc.” ZERO %. You do all of those first 4 things a lot and they all definitely do detract from my and clearly others’ enjoyment of reading the forum. But the worst for me is the “spammy argumentativeness” (not being able to let go of an argument, pedantically arguing back and forth about tangential unimportant issues clogging up the thread and having to have the last word) 50%.

Good example is the HTK thread that led me here. Everyone else has their say, with their often imperfect opinions on the matter, sharing their view and in most cases moving on after one or 2 posts. But you just cannot do that. Even before the mods moved all the posts above, how many posts did you make in the HTK thread? You seem incapable of succinctly sharing your opinion and then moving on. The fact the posts are also often verbose, boring, obvious and/or off on a tangent just adds to the issue.
I said that moderators were biased against me, not regular posters.

I do post back and forth in a debate. I don't see what is wrong with that. I post a lot of stuff that is against poker convention which is why more people disagree with me than they do with most other people. This causes more replies from me.

So what's the point of the forum then if things can't be discussed to some kind of conclusion or point where people agree to disagree.

Maybe you think it's a place to just drop imperfect or sub standard stuff and then move on to a new thread.

There is some huge negativity against me clearly from a cross section of people, moderators and posters alike. It's impossible for me to tell what percentage of total posters/lurkers feel this way and what percentage accept my posts for what they are and think that some of my posts make an interesting or valuable contribution.

Given that I can only see some of the negative "stats", I'm fighting a losing battle here.

The negative people win. I say win, you've won nothing, all you've done is discouraged me from posting with your negativity and intolerance and anger at me standing my ground when debating with people and me not being afraid to question or challenge beliefs of the crowd.

I can accept that many people find my posts, boring, verbose, pedantic, obvious, argumentative, tangential, unimportant and any other negative adjectives that you want to throw at me.

But what I will never accept is people (as a general group of criticisers of me) claiming that the content of what I post which is often questioning poker convention, digging deeper under the surface of some subjects and being critical of some things in the poker community and industry, has nothing to do with people's apparent hatred of my posting. It has a lot do with it.

Most people like a "yes man" or a "yes woman" and often can not handle or cope with someone who refuses to be this way, so resort to criticism, bullying and negativity, anything basically to suppress that person's views and shut them down. You've achieved that on this forum, I hope you are happy.
SageDonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 01:31 AM   #1541
the orange crush
adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Just kidding unless I am serious
Posts: 1,000
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

plz ban,

it will increase the signal to noise ratio
the orange crush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 01:51 AM   #1542
King Spew
Cha Cha Cha Cha
 
King Spew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Changes
Posts: 10,821
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey View Post
So what's the point of the forum then if things can't be discussed to some kind of conclusion or point where people agree to disagree.
I think one of the major issues that has been pointed out to you often is your inability to get to some kind of conclusion or to the point where people agree to disagree. Hence..... you keep threads open that have run their course because,,, well, I'm not sure why,,, maybe you may still feel you have people you haven't reached....and you may feel that "if just one more guy sides with me, I win again." I don't know, not sure you even know. Do you know why you beat a topic to death?

Edit: just a tip for you moving forward. A thread has reached that tipping point when it starts to devolve into a discussion about SD.
King Spew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 05:09 AM   #1543
Bobo Fett
2+2 Ad Man
 
Bobo Fett's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canada, eh!
Posts: 45,807
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey View Post
I apologise, the thread was closed on my request, but only because I was facing a lot of hostility from posters.
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey View Post
When I responded by saying okay, okay (to them), but give me a chance to explain my points in depth in one long post, you then started to antagonise me to the point where I was spending so much time and energy on fending you off that I became totally exhausted and disillusioned in trying to do what was about 5 hours work for me to write my in depth points which R*R had already authorised me to do so.

So whether you antagonising me was wholly deliberate by you or you just going with the flow so to speak, it had the effect of shutting me down.
Considering I already posted about this back at the time, it should be clear already that given I didn't even think my posts were antagonizing, of course it wasn't wholly or even partially deliberate.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=223

I'm not going to rehash that conversation unless you really think we need to. If you genuinely felt antagonized, I'm sorry to hear that.

There are a number of other points you mentioned that I could debate, as well as some subsequent back-and-forth with others that also could be commented on, but I don't think it would add anything to the conversation at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey View Post
At least all sides know where the land lies. Clearly I didn't know exactly where the land lied 2 or 3 days ago, so moving forwards I will adapt and/or reduce my posts on 2plus2 to fit better with the reality of how things work here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey View Post
There is nothing personal here from me against any individual. If it appears that way it isn't.
Nor from me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageDonkey View Post
Kind regards and much respect and good luck to all.
And to you as well.
Bobo Fett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2017, 01:29 AM   #1544
R*R
Painting It Black
 
R*R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Not Backsliding a Fragile Moment
Posts: 7,495
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

Happy holiday season NVG.

Thanks for bringing it once again this year!
R*R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2018, 11:04 AM   #1545
PTLou
Jellybean
 
PTLou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,401
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

re: Vanessa's thread. biggest red button on desk. press the button.

PTLou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2018, 01:17 PM   #1546
whosnext
Pooh-Bah
 
whosnext's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: California
Posts: 4,096
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

Quote:
Originally Posted by whosnext View Post
With some reluctance I will now lock this thread.

The thread has raised several important issues that, at least tangentially, relate to Vanessa Selbst. However, NVG is fiercely non-political (defined generously) and threads must for the most part stick with pure poker-related topics.

People who wish to continue this conversation are encouraged to visit the 2+2 Politics Forum. They can start a new thread there or join in on several of that forum's on-going threads in which the above conversation may fit.

Thank you for your consideration.
fyi
whosnext is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2018, 02:40 PM   #1547
PTLou
Jellybean
 
PTLou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,401
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

well done

Classiest NVG thread closure in all of 2018, by far
PTLou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2018, 02:48 PM   #1548
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: fore the rain starts
Posts: 15,906
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

I think some of them will be in trouble in the politics forum...
batair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 12:39 AM   #1549
SGT RJ
Certified Vagina Haver
 
SGT RJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Mourning Spock. And Snape.
Posts: 46,351
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

Thanks next, I’ve been sick with the flu or I would have followed through after my warning.
SGT RJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 12:11 PM   #1550
whosnext
Pooh-Bah
 
whosnext's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: California
Posts: 4,096
Re: ****OFFICIAL NVG MODERATION DISCUSSION THREAD****

No problem. Hope you get well soon.
whosnext is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online