Agree with this when it is not a derail of an existing thread.

An option you didn't list but would be the best one: d) Stick to the topic as presented when the thread is not started by you. Pivoting to what is related but interests you is what causes the problems.

Different diets were a central theme of the podcast.


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d) Is a reasonable suggestion.

However, as I stated in a discussion ages ago with a mod, I'm not a paid writer with a brief from an editor so you can't expect me or anyone to be so precise and careful as to not contravene this very tight, 100% on topic posting range you're advocating.

I believe I'm an easy target for mods or those who don't like my posts because I am high volume, high visibility on NVG.

I think it's petty people criticising my posts, like it's an inner rage people are letting out over something really small.

If you want to be popular do a)

b) is not possible as most your posts are kind of 'dumb' in that these great challenging thoughts are fairly simple / obvious - don't need to be said

c) kind of like you are 'mind raping' us - we have all said your posts are spoiling threads / 2+2 and you just keeping on going, even though we have made it clear we do not give consent

Again in terms of 'winning' poster of the year [on Gutshot] - there was very little traffic compared to 2+2

And it was the volume and time you spent posting - that 'won' you the awards

The 'awards' were not for the quality of content you put out - and I distinctly remember then [as now] people did not see your posts as beneficial or interesting - people talked about your posts in a 'my god what a waste of time to read' sort of way... in a sort of gossip / talking sort of way that humans bored at a poker table do. Your posts were a 'joke' you were not seen as being someone who added or created interesting discussions or points.

Yeah I'm sure Barry [the owner] was happy as he saw you as being one of the only people adding content - but as on here the content probably did more damage than good

I do remember so many threads where interesting discussion started and you derailed it

Hard to give specifics

I remember one with two aggro players [maybe Sam Grafton] and talking about some 7 bet shove 'levelling wars' they had early in a tourney

It was interesting and then you came in with walls of text and replies about 'not needing to do that' - and the conversation went off and disipated to the point where the aggro players continued the conversation by email [and we missed out on a good read]

Sorry my mind is fuzzy - but it was always like that

Maybe Gutshot website is still up - if it is - maybe people on here could have a look and judge if you desrveed the awards

As maybe you are a genius poster, who adds more than anyone, and are a two time winning content provider - and we are all just jealous

Or you are raping our eyes with drivel [?]

I know which I think is correct

BUt maybe you are right after all

I think it's reasonable for me to ask you to pm me your real name please given that you're being so forthright with your opinions. Knowing who you are will help me make more sense of your observations. You know my name.

I did post volume on Gutshot but I disagree regarding quality. I was asked by them to be a paid writer after my first award, and I became a paid writer. I also had many people at live tournaments come up to me and say they really liked my output.

Obviously not everyone liked it, but many did.

As a solution

Because it looks likely you will eventually be banned - because it's not worth the time and effort for the mods here [and they don't need thread killers]...

Why not open a new thread

A sagedonkey thread*

In that thread you can post anything you want - any word count - and your fans can all read and join in there

But you then don't post on any other threads

That seems win / win

As your posts will build the audience they deserve - you can post about any thing - in any way you wish

Would that not make everyone happy [?]

* that is a sagedonkey containment thread

I think you are being quite unreasonable.

I am also really confused as to why you appear to be so angry and concerned about my forum posts and have such a negative opinion of me on multiple fronts. E.g. That I appeared to have Autism or Aspergers Syndrome, my posts were hated on The Gutshot Forum, I only won based on volume.

You've also trolled me a few times on threads with a similar tone of negativity towards me.

There must be something that I am unaware of, in terms of you and me, that motivates you to do this.

Yes, I definitely take strong views and positions on the topic of some threads. As for it swaying my moderating judgements, I'm not sure exactly what you mean. If I feel strongly that a topic is ridiculous and decide to close it, that's part of what moderating is about. If you mean me expressing a viewpoint on a topic, that in and of itself isn't making a moderating judgements - sometimes a post is just a post. If you mean making moderating decisions (infractions, bans, deletions, etc.) based on disagreeing with someone, that's definitely something I always look to avoid, so I'd be interested in seeing any examples that I could learn from.

Heh, that's kind of funny - so many times I'm slow to take actions others would like to see. I often give the benefit of the doubt more than others would like to people they view as trolls. But I'm not saying you're wrong in the examples you may have seen, because of course any one poster is only going to see a slice of another poster's/mod's work in the forums. However, I'm not convinced you know what you're talking about here, as I've taken very, very few moderating actions that have involved you.

Meh. There can be some cliquishness, sure. But I think more often than not, people are individually making their own judgements on others' posts - just because a lot of posters line up against someone who "questions convention" doesn't mean they aren't thinking for themselves, or are doing this out of a need to fit in with the group.

Hard for me to say if I jumped in at exactly the right spot, but when I started hearing about long-term posters that read NVG far less because of your posts, I thought something needed to be said. And while it could have been done privately, I think it's important for you to understand that this isn't just an issue of a few people who have an issue with you or who can't handle you challenging convention, and having this discussion out in the open is the best way to do so.

I mean, even after all of the conversation thus far, you came back to this:

No.

There was nothing arbitrary about it. When I said this, I meant it:

"I'm not suggesting they couldn't or shouldn't be part of the discussion. I was pointing out the irony of you dismissing the subject of the thread as a side issue, while attempting to make your views of an actual side issue the central point of discussion.

I only jumped in because I've seen 3 people post in the last few days that you are the primary reason why they read NVG far less than they used to. You don't often make a single post that can be easily pointed to as the problem, yet you constantly manage to take threads and turn them into a discussion about your views on something, often tangential to the original topic. This has been pointed out to you numerous times in a variety of ways, but the message is usually not received and/or understood by you."

There was nothing arbitrary about that.

I've been wrong numerous times, and happily admitted to it. If I thought I was, I would so now as well.

Asking me to admit I was wrong about something I posted an hour or two previously without giving me any reason to do so, and suggesting what I said was arbitrary, makes it sound like you think I'm just making everything up because I have some personal dislike of SD. If that's the case, you are absolutely incorrect.

Very well said.

I don't think anyone expects you to. I know I sure don't manage to do this. But I think there's a good range in between getting it right every time, and where you're at right now.

That's not a negative opinion of you

And it was multiple people who said that - not me - at the Int

And multiple people who have PM'd me to say they believed you may have autism from your posts/responses

I only brought it up - as I thought you were autistic - I thought people who knew you, knew this - and I thought it might help you be more tolerated on 2+2

But you have stated you don't - so fine...

I'm sorry I brought it up - didn't mean to cause offense - I genuinely thought it was the case and was hoping to help people understand more where you are coming from... though now [after you saying you don't] I have less of an understanding myself

Ok can I make you very aware

My motivation is I don't want to put anyone on 'ignore' - but over time your posts are consistently awful and worsen threads/2+2

You don't seem to have awareness

Do you really think people are acting like this just because you have some amazing insights and different view points [?]

My posts are solely motivated by how poor your ones are - you keep dragging threads down

I guess it is fine [we all do this] - but it's because you do it all the time, that is annoying

Maybe join a few other forums - and post for 7 days on one... then 7 days on the next - and that way maybe only once every two months you are on any one forum.

Then your derails will not appear so obvious / annoying - as you are only popping up for a week once every two months

Sorry you think I'm being super negative towards you

I have tried to come up with ways to stop you getting banned - as if you can't read the way the wind is blowing - try and re read some of the mod comments again

And although you are having a 'go' at some of them - my goodness they have given you a lot of leeway - I am sure many smaller sites [smaller minds] would have banned you a long time ago

Anyone who doesnt have sagedonkey on their ignore list is 100% doing it wrong, just for the record

On the other hand I have tons of posts over a shorter period of time and nobody has ever personally attacked me despite my visibility/volume, so that's another data point lurkers could look at.

This isn't the case here, but "pivoting" to a related point, a lot of the negativity floating around about 2p2 mentioned in passing on e.g. podcasts seems to come from people who are selling access to private discussion forums associated with training sites.

Yep, although it's not limited exclusively to those services. PokerStars started hyping the anti-TwoPlusTwo rhetoric when they launched on Discord. From Aug 30, 2017...

http://pokerfuse.com/news/media-and-...know-about-it/

"Traditionally, most online poker operators have maintained a presence on poker forums sites such TwoPlusTwo.com, but in recent years, there has been a growing concern in the industry that such sites cater mainly to the “grinder” subsection on the poker community, and thus alienate many casual players.

PokerStars’ pivot towards Discord is a prime example. In the past, PokerStars would utilize the poker forums as one of its primary ways of soliciting feedback, but while testing its newest game Power Up, PokerStars looked to Discord instead."

"PokerStars has put an emphasis on making the community inviting for new players, in stark contrast to the snark and vitriol that are commonplace in many of the online poker forums."

My God is SD ever the most annoying poster I've ever seen. Has anyone ever mentioned that? Do you ever stop? Go out and get some fresh air for a change.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Its just amazing how somebody can continually write these convoluted walls of text based on basically nothing and really think theyre saying something important or insightful

Absolutely insufferable, the ignore list is an elite forum function

I will be sticking to my promised 100 words per post limit on regular threads, but you guys have made a lot of points and it's clearly impossible for me to respond to them all in a total less than 100 words. So I'll use a few more as necessary as indeed you have in making your points.

I agree there is a good range and I try to fall within this, but at the same time the principle of freedom of thought and ideas means that applying set ranges can only ever be a loose guide.

No one has ever banned me from anything or anywhere, in any walk of life or in any situation. The only exception is here on 2plus2 where I have received some temp bans. For either too long posts. (now resolved, apart from my replies here as explained). For being argumentative on a thread (I disagreed with the ban). For using a banned term (the moderator got the wrong end of the stick in that instance IMO).

Yes but that doesn't disprove my point, because a decent proportion of my posts challenge poker convention or dig deeper into uncomfortable areas of an issue and this is what I think some people do not like.

First people gave the reason that my posts were too long, now that they are 100 words or less the reason is that I take topics off at a tangent.

I wonder what the next "reason" will be if I stay an absolute 100% on topic, even though other people don't. I am sure people will come up with another reason.

There is definitely a lot of snark and vitriol on 2plus2, something which is way less prevalent on other poker forums.

Likely that Pokerstars with the higher rake /lower rewards etc changes they made were also concerned that they would be called out too much about these issues on a more open forum such as 2plus2.

I do spend too much time on this forum, totally agree with you.

It would be more +EV for myself to spend less time on here, regardless of the rights and wrongs of whether you and others are justified in criticising my posts and whether the forum moderators are justified in "helicoptering" me.

FFS.
I enjoy reading this thread from time to time.
Even this one has been Saged now.

I've posted 100 words or less the last few hundred posts, apart from unavoidably having to post 100+ words in this moderation thread.

Most people's general posts on 2plus2 aren't important or insightful. This includes what I post. Like others, I occasionally post important or insightful things.

It's odd you're so upset about my posts. I'm always polite and debate and discuss things in a civil way.

I post the same views that I do on 2plus2, on Twitter, and people don't block me or unfollow me there nor respond negatively or rudely.

This "issue" is a 2plus2 one IMO.

You don't have to respond to every single post anyone makes. That, plus the length of your posts, account for 80℅ of what makes you a bad poster.

Above, I said everything I needed to say in < 30 words and if you reply, I have no need to respond because I realize NVG isn't a forum for people who want to read debates between me and someone else, so I just let it go and move on.

Lol, Great point! You got me there!

Tbf, you've had a go at me for some of my posts in the past, but we've also had some friendly discussions in threads and agreed on a number of issues in them.

This is kind of my point. I have periods where I post a lot and/or create some new threads. It's natural that across a large group of people that some of my posts are going to be liked or accepted and others are going to be hated or ignored/rejected.

It's not solely the content of your posts - I don't bother reading them half the time.
It's that you always have to have the last word. You must just walk away sometimes.
You're like BJSmith used to be.

That is a very fair point you make that I have a natural inclination to have the last word.

And this post is not me having the last word!, it's an unavoidable paradox so that I can admit and acknowledge that you are right.