Of course some or many of my opinions are wrong, but within what you have just highlighted, it is very obvious that NVG in particular can and does often treat people harshly who "the crowd" disagrees with and it is therefore a reasonable assumption that this is why many people lurk and don't post much.

You are also proving one of my points, by personally attacking me regarding my writing style and by accusing me of knowingly posting false facts or information.

Perhaps it is people like you that are the problem and not me.

This imo

Not to be rude Mr SD

But I do feel your posts are the nut low

And anytime a thread gets interesting - you then pop in - and...

But I want to be more helpful than rude...

Maybe just pick one sub form and only post in there - as 2+2 equals a lot less when you start trying to add to it

Argh I can't help being rude - sorry

Sorry for that being the way I feel

I think you seem to miss the point, or can't read people/ideas very well.

I might be misremembering this - but I did play a load at the International [in the same room if not the same table as you] and I seem to vaguely remember two things

One I am sure of – that is that you did the same thing [as here] to the International poker site forums [called The Gutshot] long dreary posts that were often long winded and banal. Or that sucked life out of vibrant and interesting threads

The other thing I’m not sure about. I thought [and I could be wrong about this - I apologise if I am] that you have autism [maybe Asperger’s?] – now I both have a son with autism and my partners boy has Asperger’s – so I’m not saying this to be hurtful or anything like that

It made sense then – as both on the forum and in the games you seemed like you had signs of autism

I would also think that – your intentions are 100% good – you don’t mean to derail/etc but maybe it’s because you might excel at many things – maybe communicating or reading people [not their range/hands but their words/expressions] are things you are not particularly good at [?]

If what I said is true than it’s unfair to expect you to necessarily see what all the moderators and many of the other users mean

I think your heart is in the right place

And when I say your posts are the nut low – that is because they detract from my [selfish] enjoyment of the threads/topics

I don’t know what the answer is – but if there was a way you could find a shorter/better way to join the discussions – that might make people feel less like you are a hindrance to the debate and more likely to actually read/enjoy your contributions [and not take the p / troll you so much]

Anyway the TLDR post is dedicated to SageDonkey

All the best x

My first post was jokey/factual about seeing 3 watches on his wrist. (He infamously tried to pawn his multiple watches in a live streamed game)

My later posts were responding to the bolded parts above that were posted before my 2nd post, so not taking this thread off on a tangent.

An actual derail is not good I agree, but tangents or minor tangents are completely normal and routine in discussion and debates.

This whole attack on me is totally pathetic and done mainly by people behind the safety of their SNs. Google mine, I don't post with that luxury.

nah, your posts are just boring af.

Huge bullying culture on NVG / this thread. Engendered by a moderator, somewhat bizarrely.

You can't tell anyone where they can and can't post or what they should post about.

I don't have any such condition and my "poor" posting you recall on The Gutshot Forum was rewarded by me winning forum poster of the year 2 years consecutively.

Fwiw I was one of the most outgoing people in that poker club always with a happy, friendly and likeable persona. By contrast your persona was a little glum; possibly your poker face rather than the real you.

I believe you are DC? (your initials), the person who picked my brains on Twitter direct messaging about 5 and 6 card PLO strat but now appears to have turned against me! Lol

"Bizzarely" enough, the bolded is exactly what the mods job is.

No - I'm not DC

So he has not 'turned' against you

And no your posts on gutshot were not good

You left long dull messages and many, many of them

The 'award' was due to volume not content

Just as the International Cash Game Player of the year - was never the best players [in the running] but those who played [at the international] the most

And I do not remember you as being happy or friendly

I am sorry for suggesting you have autism [not that it is a slur - to have it]

But I was told by more than one person you were autistic

And you were not happy - that I remember

You were always going on and on - about wasiting your life with poker, wanting to quit... etc

Both in real life and on the forums

You did go on about other stuff

I just don't remember you as being a happy person at that time

Not saying you weren't - just that, that wasn't what I saw being projected by you

I assure you I was happy and friendly. When I periodically see people from those days in cash games now, they're always pleased to see me. (bar a tiny minority who I had fierce reg battles with)

I did say I was quitting during a 10 day isolated period after three years playing/posting after I'd bricked a chunk of SCOOPs and then cancelled a 100% backed WSOP trip because I felt down.

I'm really pleased you're not DC because always got on well with him and he gave me some NLHE coaching, so "him" turning against me didn't make sense.

Yeah, I like it. Nice one. But would never put myself in that position. Also, some good strat in a legal poker game is to befriend the toughest guy(s) at the table/in the venue.

P.S. I am really am a boxer, unlike it appears HashTagKing.

Not saying I could beat that guy, definitely not, but in a boxing ring most people in the same weight class as me would have close to zero chance of winning.

Wouldn't surprise me if I'm in some kind of poker player boxing challenge in the future, if and when my poker profile is bigger.

No he has not turned on you - I can 100% tell you I'm not DC

It was spoken many times by different people that you 'had autism'

There's no shame if it is the fact - I can tell you that as someone bringing up a family with children that have autism

But if you don't

People presumed you do

And you give signs of having it

I think it's the way you talk and analyse [as in get fixated / go into too much detail of something that is obvious and insignificant]

Or how you look at people [eyes]

These are probably character traits and nothing to do with autism

I thought people would treat you with more understanding [if you had autism] as it might explain why there’s a disconnect in how you post on these forums and the ways others do / want to

No matter what

I wish you the best

I've never seen a moderator just start arbitrarily slagging off a poster in public before. If you think that is how it should be done then good luck to you.

Congratulations on missing the point entirely AND picking up on a typo that I instantly corrected. You're the best!

I hardly even know what to say to this. Seriously.

I couldn't even begin to count the number of posters that have complained about you in different threads. You have infractions from 3 other moderators. And you were actually put on a word count/post limit for a while by another moderator, something I've never seen done before.

So no, this isn't an issue of "me vs. you".

LOL, OK.

Just to be clear, though, my earlier post had nothing to do with my personal viewpoint on the topic - I hadn't even expressed one.

Pretty much any thread started in NVG will create debate and traffic.

Leaving aside the trolling for now...routinely? I haven't even responded to one of your posts in over 4 months.

I probably did enjoy criticizing your viewpoint in that thread, because it was so terrible. Guilty as charged.

Except that wasn't what I was doing. Again:

It's your manner of making a thread a discussion of your viewpoints that I was taking issue with, as happens so often. And not even a discussion of your viewpoints of the subject of the thread.

It's easy to position yourself as "Devil's Advocate", or the one with the contradictory or controversial viewpoint, and then dismiss those who criticize as going along with the crowd. And while that can happen sometimes, a lot of the time it's just that one person is wrong, and obviously a lot of people will disagree with them. Or one person holds an opinion that most disagree with, and they didn't need a crowd to convince them of that.

I haven't really seen a lot of personal attacks in this thread. People are attacking the way you post.

I'm curious how this works, in your mind. It's not like SD is being personally attacked in a vicious manner. I expressed an opinion that he is posting poorly, and a few people have agreed. If that's bullying, then I'm not sure how this is supposed to work - is there a limit to how many people can line up to disagree with someone, and once we go over that number, it becomes bullying? I'm being serious here - I'm sure you don't think in those terms, but still, what makes it bullying as opposed to a number of people disagreeing with someone, or disliking their posting style?

No one's really done that to this point, but yes, of course you can. Of course that doesn't mean the person has to listen to you.

If you meant as a moderator, then again, of course we can, only in that case, the person does need to listen. But that's not what I'm doing here.

There was nothing arbitrary about it.

Many other things have been tried with SD, and none of them seem to work. If you have other suggestions, I'm all ears. SD discussions often end up derailing threads. Posters are constantly complaining about him. Some long-term posters are saying they read NVG much less because of him. What would you suggest we do about this?

At the poker table I was very talkative, partly because that's my natural personality but also to alleviate the boredom of ~22 hands per hour.

The eyes thing? I have hooded eyelids. Maybe those give that impression? Always wore sunglasses when in hands.

My poker personality was an accentuation of my IRL personality so could give an impression of craziness in some way.

Alot of my talking was strategic to engage people, get information, and so I wouldn't be disliked by players when winning from them, because I won about 5 in 6 sessions.

All the best to you too.

You've got to be kidding, right. You're on more people's ignore lists than anyone else in NVG. I doubt this is an uncommon sentiment: I stop reading any thread in which you have more than a couple of posts, and there is at one other non-Bobo mod who feels the same way.

Yeah only have 100 words, my posts were often too long. So hard to address all your points.

I will say though that you often take a strong view and position on the topic of the thread (not just mine) and this sways your moderating judgements.

You're more trigger happy than some mods, maybe looking for things that aren't there.

Many of your points above are valid, but this does not detract from the fact that NVG as an organism is quite poker cliquey, doesn't take kindly to people who question convention, and can resort to low level cyber bullying.

Sump is my biggest "fan".

Dare I say that mods are part of the poker clique so not too surprising that you would have a natural sub-conscious bias towards the crowd and against those who often disagree with them.

Many people did put me on ignore before my self-imposed 100 word limit. After this I've received mainly good replies and civil debate with people, plus some have commented that they've taken me off ignore.

I'm aware that I can improve to fit in better with NVG, and have been doing this. Just felt that BoboFett jumped in unnecessarily there.

BoboFett did many folks a service by bring to the surface a problem that has gone on for quite some time.

You? nothing. Perhaps Sage could be just a little bit self aware and realize that he's a ****ing **** poster that adds absolutely nothing 99% of the time...but two time poster of the year at another forum so he thinks he's got interesting takes. Sage, nobody would care if you stopped posting and nothing of value would be lost.

Yes, Sage, I know, I add nothing a lot and no one would care if I stopped posting. The difference is I'm aware of that and not smelling my own farts after clicking post because I think I have some hot take.

Yes I sometimes dig deeper within the topic which can result in bringing up other related angles.

I guess I have 3 main options:

a) Cease to post.
b) Dumb down my posts and consciously never challenge the majority opinion.
c) Continue positing but ignore any criticism of how I post.

The issue I have with the criticism is that it cherry picks things that the critic doesn't like, taking no account of the many well received posts I have made.

I am imperfect like everyone, but I also have some qualities, including posting some good and interesting content.

It is arbitrary when you accuse him of derailing when he clearly was not. Gregorio did the exact same thing on the podcast thread when he was talking about eating meat.

Most people complain about "walls of text" and this is not a legitimate grievance.

Just admit you were wrong, Bobo Fett. People will think more of you for it.

Would take you many hours but you really need to look at alot of my threads and not just hone in on some threads where most people have vehemently disagreed with my points.

Additionally, I am in many threads where no-one is at each others throats, nor stating that they are 100% right, which is ridiculous. I routinely use IMO and I regularly state uncertain or on balance opinions.

I also do not launch personal attacks such as the person who called me a
"dim light bulb" in a recent thread I started. Where was the moderator there, to intervene?

SD's posts were off-topic and terrible as usual (verbose and obvious points he seems to think are enlightening), but if you think I ever accused him of derailing it, then your reading comprehension is as bad as the poster you're defending.

Thanks for the support, you are right Gregorio did do that and shortly afterwards a poster said that it was a valid point and area that I brought up, and then guess what a very interesting discussion developed, one in which lots of people posted some really great stuff.

I'd go as far as saying that what people posted was fantastic, including their own experiences of Veganism.

I claim no credit for this, I simply posted something on a chat forum and it was pure luck what happened afterwards.

Overzealous moderating can deny the chance for such luck to happen.