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***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) ***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread)

05-03-2013 , 11:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SrslySirius
all lock pros and lock reps communicate in shanespeak, we should be knowing that
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-03-2013 , 11:08 PM
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-03-2013 , 11:22 PM
It's pretty surprising that none of the 30 or 40 Lock pros has the decency to say anything.

I guess it takes a certain kind of person to get involved with Lock to begin with, though.
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-03-2013 , 11:27 PM
OMG A LOCK PRO HAS RESPONDED. also aguiar dropping truth bombs

Jonathan Aguiar ‏@JonAguiar 11h
Rumor (fact) has it that @annette_15 and @thegrinder44 have been receiving 250k/year from Lock. Many other pros receiving 6 figures

Jeff Romano ‏@hurr1canejeff 6h
@JonAguiar @annette_15 @thegrinder44 did you just make that up? Or do you have any evidence?

Jonathan Aguiar ‏@JonAguiar 4h
Hey look guys, a lock pro found his voice RT @hurr1canejeff: did you just make that up? Or do you have any evidence?

A fox o.O ‏@fanexfox 4h
@JonAguiar @hurr1canejeff any evidence of lock paying players back?

Jeff Romano ‏@hurr1canejeff 3h
@fanexfox @JonAguiar how long have you been waiting on your cashout?

hoogi ‏@hoogicoby 33m
@hurr1canejeff @fanexfox @JonAguiar I've been waiting on 1k cash out since Dec 2012. What a joke. shame on you!!!

Jeff Romano
‏@hurr1canejeff
@hoogicoby @fanexfox @JonAguiar I have nothing to do with cashouts, I just play on a site that offers poker to US players
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-03-2013 , 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimAfternoon
It's pretty surprising that none of the 30 or 40 Lock pros has the decency to say anything.
Sound familiar?
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-03-2013 , 11:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SrslySirius
Highly unlikely that her promised post happens, or if it does happen, expect little more than PR nonsense. Someone from Lock probably contacted her as soon as they were notified that she was going to make a post about the situation and told her to keep quiet.
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-03-2013 , 11:36 PM
Hi guys,

These are all my own views/ opinions and not a statement from Lock.

My thread in Marketplace
I'll preface this post by saying I am truly let down by some of the posters here. I'm speaking to those who have brought their issues with Lock into a personal marketplace thread. Asking pros to comment on the Lock situation, while certainly out of place in marketplace, is not out of line in general. But suggesting that because of Lock's operational issues, my credibility in marketplace is actually in question is ludicrous. Every person posting in that thread knows full well I have a pristine marketplace record over years of buying and selling action regardless of sponsorship. Even more importantly, they know that nearly everyone in the top tier of known players would and have vouched for me. Those that don't know that can easily ascertain that information. I suspect not one of them is truly delusional enough to think that my wearing a Lock patch is in any way tantamount to whether or not I am a person who can be trusted with a tournament investment.


Furthermore, the situation on marketplace is, and has always been, that any person has a right to accept and refuse payment types as they see fit. Representing a site does not mean you are obligated to accept payment for private action on that site, nor does not doing so indicate lack of integrity. Not offering it as a payment option does not represent a lack of faith in the site--it is simply whatever the seller deems most convenient at the time, as getting together money to buy in for a live event from multiple sources is pretty tedious. In this personal case, I chose not to accept Lock, Bitcoin, Intertops, Carbon, Party, 888, or any other site or online poker currency aside from the site that allows buying in through the client. I do not accept Lock or any of those other methods as I cannot receive EPT winnings via them, and therefore will not send out winnings via them. Clear and simple.


Because of that (in response to one of the players posting) it is, in fact, unreasonable for people to claim that the harassment regarding Lock is under some purely well-intentioned desire for "some disclosure" about a player asking to be staked and her sponsorship. There is nothing undisclosed with regard to my position. I am a pro for Lock and have been for a year and a half. My tournament history and results are available publicly. I am extremely well known within the poker community, and have been so for years. I often sell action on 2+2, with a flawless history of both buying and selling over five years on the site. The questions about the transparency of the operations of Lock Poker and its current issues, while extremely important right now in the poker world, are completely inappropriate under the guise of "addressing a player's integrity in marketplace," given the very available information on just that.


I have a lot of faith in the 2+2 community, and I don't believe that most of you actually think interrogating me about my sponsorship is actually related to my trustworthiness to sell action. What I do believe is that the community wants all the issues Lock is currently facing addressed (and rightfully so), and that some of you have gone so long in a state of frustration with little to no contact from the company that you are trying to get your voices heard in any way possible. I'm disappointed with the witch hunt attitude that 2+2 posters have taken, and while I recognize the frustration, there are better channels to do it through. But ignoring the inappropriate way it has been handled, I understand how badly the community has been let down by Lock (and especially the lack of official communication) and therefore will try to outline as much of the pro situation as I currently can.


Lock Representation
Why do the pros represent Lock? Why do we continue to be ambassadors for a site that is causing so many problems for the poker community with the cashout delays and rumors of insolvency? The implication is that we're just using our names and brands in order to selfishly promote, and take a paycheck from, a site that is screwing over their players.


But the truth is, jumping ship, breaking contract, and leaving Lock would accomplish absolutely nothing except dissolving important channels that the site has to the community, which are damned important channels to maintain in order for any of these problems to be rectified. No pro in his/her ethical right mind should spend years promoting a site, signing their friends and peers up through it, and then decide to peace out when issues arise and the going gets tough. I personally feel responsible for encouraging many players to join the site, and the other pros and I feel that we have a responsibility to all those players who signed up under us in good faith, making it unacceptable to abandon our responsibilities here rather than work to improve the situation.


The cashout situation and the role of Lock Pros
Many 2+2ers seem to be unaware of this, but the pro team is mostly part of marketing and not involved in any important financial transactions or operations with regards to assets. Despite our lack of involvement in the back-end of things, I know that all the pros have wanted to speak to the issue for some time, and have only waited this long in order to gather some real information about the current status of operations. We've spent a lot of time recently working on getting to the bottom of things. The entire Lock pro team met today in order to hash out all these issues and find solutions and information on what the future holds and what kind of improvements can be made, on what scale, and in what timeframe. Every one of the pros on the team--Moorman, Stout, Annette, myself--comes from a grinding background and identifies completely with the issues, especially in a post-BF world where we've seen exactly how bad it can get. Our primary concern is getting answers to the cashout issues, especially in more of a concrete fashion than "they will improve."


Now, the pros aren't and won't be privy to the specific financials of Lock, but do know for sure that Lock, as an American-facing site, faces a lot of behind-the-scenes issues with processing (not to mention the latest transfer issues, which I can confirm are 100% a true issue and have been for some time) and volume limitations on said processing, as one might expect.


Some posters complain that the pros aren't using their positions to demand answers for the players. This couldn't be farther from the truth. The pros have been instrumental in reinforcing the severity of these issues to those in charge and making damned sure that specific situations are addressed. We've been unhappy promoting the site without solid projections for improvement, have said so, and spent the last week approaching those in charge on behalf of the community, and thankfully gotten some answers. Pros have been told that a lot of the cashout issues have been resolved in the wake of the resolution of money laundering and the abuse of the transfers. As of today, we have been told that Skrill cashouts will return to what they were (1-2 weeks) for ROW. We have been told that this will return to normal by June. We've also been told that playthrough requirements will be fixed and communicated properly. This post here reinforces Lock's focus on improvement rather than promotion.


The pros have tried to get concrete info for American issues as well, but there are no concrete time frame improvements we have been given for those cashouts, as the issues facing American processing remain grossly difficult. This doesn't excuse the insanely long times or arduous cashout process, and frankly nothing does, but it isn't being ignored. The people pointing to the smaller skins paying out American players ignore the KEY fact that they process an insanely small fraction of the cashouts that Lock processes, and therefore are under far less risk when processing quickly. None of this is to say American cashouts aren't a priority--they are just subject to a lot more resistance and obstacles than ROW.


The last thing any of us want to do is make excuses for the current situation on Lock's behalf. But as far as the pros are concerned, our responsibility lies with using our positions within the company to make sure things get on the right track--not to sit idly by while things get worse, or abandon all the players who have signed up through us to Lock. We aren't happy with the status quo. Better communication is paramount. Bottom line-- we've been given some concrete timeframes at this point and we're with the players here expecting to see results based on those timeframes. If Lock can make progress here, we feel that the ship can be righted.

Last edited by Callisto 5; 05-03-2013 at 11:41 PM.
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-03-2013 , 11:45 PM
PM'd you Melanie
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-03-2013 , 11:47 PM
Bovada is nearly twice the size of Lock and pays out 10-15x faster to US players.

Merge is also larger than the Lock skin, and has nowhere near the same trouble.

Lock says they have all player funds. It should not matter one bit how much someone pays for Lock funds in a secondary market.

It also takes Lock 3+ months to pay RoW players -- these transactions are not subject to UIGEA or any US oversight, and should not take anywhere near as long as US cashouts.

Last edited by JimAfternoon; 05-03-2013 at 11:59 PM.
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-03-2013 , 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callisto 5
If Lock can make progress here, we feel that the ship can be righted.
Cliffs: And the band played on...
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-03-2013 , 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiJon
While I understand the need to light a fire to get answers, you aren't targeting the right person(s). I hope for the best for everyone stuck with money on there but seriously, the torches and pitchforks are pointed the wrong way.
I agree that focusing all the ire on Melanie is misguided, largely because it means that other more egregious shillers are probably getting off easy. I feel like our ire towards Lock Pros should be doled out based on how aggressively they have shilled and how many sponsorship dollars they have earned.

(Why should money be a factor? Because let's not pretend envy doesn't play some role in this tar and feathering.)

I was hoping to point out some Lock Pros who, while not breaking their contract and leaving the site, have at least shied away from promoting Lock. So I figured Paul Volpe and Bryan Pellegrino would be good places to start. A cursory look at paulgees81 Twitter showed only two retweets about Lock in this year (one about Volpe leading the GPI, the other about Lock signing The Grinder). Sadly, the same can't be said for PrimordialAA. If a relative baller like him is still shilling, I don't know where on that list of Lock Pros we're supposed to find someone who has shut down entirely.

And of course the Lock owner Jen Larson deserves the majority of our ire. But it's not like the pros' gameplan (at this point) is any different than hers. It's a pure cash grab for all of them. She'll likely disappear from poker once this debacle ends. The pros will be around for a long time.
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-03-2013 , 11:58 PM
Props to Melanie for actually posting and for putting some real answers in her post.

Here's my takeaway:

Quote:
As of today, we have been told that Skrill cashouts will return to what they were (1-2 weeks) for ROW. We have been told that this will return to normal by June.
Quote:
We've also been told that playthrough requirements will be fixed and communicated properly.
Drawing a line in the sand over these two issues is the best thing I've seen a sponsored pro or affiliate say about Lock in years.

I'm curious to see if other pros will publicly get behind what Melanie is saying in her post or not.

These things either happen soon, or they don't and that's far better than the posts we've seen Shane make or the incorrect timeframes and information from security and support, or the silence from others involved for many months now.
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-04-2013 , 12:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRy
Props to Melanie for actually posting and for putting some real answers in her post.

Here's my takeaway:





Drawing a line in the sand over these two issues is the best thing I've seen a sponsored pro or affiliate say about Lock in years.

I'm curious to see if other pros will publicly get behind what Melanie is saying in her post or not.

These things either happen soon, or they don't and that's far better than the posts we've seen Shane make or the incorrect timeframes and information from security and support, or the silence from others involved for many months now.
Ya but the key in her post is "we have been told"

Shane said he was told a lot of things too etc.

Good of her to speak up though, whether this happens or not we will see
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-04-2013 , 12:03 AM
Yeah, Shane has been saying the same thing for over a year now.

But thanks for posting Melanie, at least somebody finally spoke up.
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-04-2013 , 12:10 AM
Lock Pros two options........Continue to take the money and sponsor the site or abandon ship? How about a 3rd option Melanie? Every dollar you take from here on out you put in the bank and if Lock doesn't pay it's players you give the money to the very community it was stolen from?
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-04-2013 , 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callisto 5
Every person posting in that thread knows full well I have a pristine marketplace record over years of buying and selling action regardless of sponsorship. Even more importantly, they know that nearly everyone in the top tier of known players would and have vouched for me. Those that don't know that can easily ascertain that information. I suspect not one of them is truly delusional enough to think that my wearing a Lock patch is in any way tantamount to whether or not I am a person who can be trusted with a tournament investment.
I think you are missing a major point here. Staking you = staking someone that will be wearing a Lock patch. Wearing a Lock patch at the EPT Grand Final = more people join the Lock site.

....and people joining Lock when Lock funds are selling at 30% is not right imo.

Why I shouldn't stake you, from Good Will Hunting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrOZllbNarw
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-04-2013 , 12:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Johnson
This! Anyone who has any knowledge of the cashout problems on UB, FTP and the myriad of other rooms that have had financial problems, yet still made a deposit on Lock Poker is a idiot. You have no one to point fingers at but yourself. Once bitten, hell 10 times bitten...

Lock Pros can certainly be viewed as shady BUT IMO ONLY when it comes to those new or recreational players that are 100% oblivious to the issues surrounding online poker in the US. The Lock Pros have to sleep at night for doing it, but these morally void people can always somehow justify it by convincing themselves that players 'know the risks'.

The fact is that virtually all poker players posting/reading on 2+2 knew the chances of these withdrawal problems occurring YET AGAIN, were EXTREMELY high based on current US law, the extreme difficulty of an offshore site operating in the US, and basic history.

You'd be better off playing the shell game on the Las Vegas Strip than depositing on an unregulated site. At least in that scenario you can attempt to physically beat the money out of the person that scams you.
this post is so far beyond rtarded. So just because a few sites robbed their customers we should never play online again and expect to be able to cash our funds out? People i consider friends are lock pros and told me my money was good when i first started playing there. Obviously i'm not stupid and didn't believe them so i got any funds i won off as quick as possible, but i can't be a little mad at them for telling me my money was good when in fact it wasn't? It's not like these "lock pros" (lol) are getting paid some handsome amount of money. They are basically pushing a company that is a scam just so they can pocket a little coin, but they shouldn't be mocked or laughed at for doing it. NO. NO NO NO I DO NOT SUBSCRIBE. LOL LOCK. LOL LOCK PROS.

Pretty absurd to *** with callisto's marketplace thread tho... it's apples and oranges.
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-04-2013 , 01:10 AM
Melanie...have integrity and walk away...Lead by example. Quitting is not the same as quitting while you're...umm...ahead, i guess. Thx for the response tho.. long time lurker on 2+2 here. My posts r few and far between but ive been following the Lock situation closely.

Heres my question...are you withdrawing (able to withdraw) funds from Lock. If you are honest with yourself and the answer is yes and you don't walk away from Lock....then you are scum
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-04-2013 , 01:14 AM
I disagree with the idea that Lock Pros breaking their contract as a result of not wanting to identify with a company that is participating in unethical practices accomplishes nothing. Of course it accomplishes something. It will certainly accomplish more than staying on board, urging management to improve, and hoping that what they are being told is somewhere approaching truth.

I disagree with people attacking Lock Pros in the marketplace. While some of the criticism was probably warranted, some tact could have been shown by recognizing an appropriate setting to voice complaints.

The argument about whether or not players should have known better is irrelevant. Right now, Lock is scamming people and lying to everyone. That is what matters. If your name is attached to that, it doesn't matter if you are simply part of marketing.

I think that a great deal of leniency is being shown to current Lock Pros. They deserve to have their feet held to the fire. These situations (Poker sites deceiving and defrauding players, sponsored pros leeching $ while blissfully ignoring wrongdoing and patterns of scumbaggery) will only ever be solved by forcing accountability. It happens over and over again for a reason. Vanessa is absolutely right to say that players need to be more vigilant in voicing concerns.

Respect for Melanie actually addressing this thread and the situation as a whole. But really, "projections for improvement" and "we have been told" is meaningless bull****, and everyone paying any attention at all knows that.
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-04-2013 , 01:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASPoker8
I disagree with the idea that Lock Pros breaking their contract as a result of not wanting to identify with a company that is participating in unethical practices accomplishes nothing. Of course it accomplishes something. It will certainly accomplish more than staying on board, urging management to improve, and hoping that what they are being told is somewhere approaching truth.

I disagree with people attacking Lock Pros in the marketplace. While some of the criticism was probably warranted, some tact could have been shown by recognizing an appropriate setting to voice complaints.

The argument about whether or not players should have known better is irrelevant. Right now, Lock is scamming people and lying to everyone. That is what matters. If your name is attached to that, it doesn't matter if you are simply part of marketing.

I think that a great deal of leniency is being shown to current Lock Pros. They deserve to have their feet held to the fire. These situations (Poker sites deceiving and defrauding players, sponsored pros leeching $ while blissfully ignoring wrongdoing and patterns of scumbaggery) will only ever be solved by forcing accountability. It happens over and over again for a reason. Vanessa is absolutely right to say that players need to be more vigilant in voicing concerns.

Respect for Melanie actually addressing this thread and the situation as a whole. But really, "projections for improvement" and "we have been told" is meaningless bull****, and everyone paying any attention at all knows that.
+1,000,000

Last edited by TheG0ldenJ3w; 05-04-2013 at 01:20 AM. Reason: +1,000,000
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-04-2013 , 01:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callisto 5
The entire Lock pro team met today in order to hash out all these issues and find solutions and information on what the future holds and what kind of improvements can be made, on what scale, and in what timeframe. [/B]
So were you guys meeting in Portugal on a Lock trip? http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...-pros-1327217/
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-04-2013 , 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuSTMeANuT
First, your comparisons are idiotic. Second, nobody is trying to get answers from her concerning the financial status of Lock poker. Everyone knows they are broke. There are people still waiting for checks that they requested in NOVEMBER. What everyone IS wondering is why her and all the other "pros" are promoting and accepting $$ from a poker site that is scamming the poker community.
Oh, I'm sorry. Your unquestionable intellect and superior logic far surpasses my own. Let's beat on the doors of Lock Pros because they surely know the deep seeded operational know-how of Lock Poker or are real buddy buddy with the suits at the top. They are totally in the know and Durrrr/FTP, Joe Sebok/UB, etc were all outliers when it came to management transparency as we saw in the past to get the truth out by scandalous sites. Yup, we never saw this one before.

Yes, I retract my statement. Let's completely devote all of our time bashing human billboards to get at the bottom of things. That makes a lot of sense...

... Wait no, that sounded unbelievably ****ing ******ed.

Additionally, as you already said you know the site is broke, you know there are withdrawal problems... Who gives two ****s what the Lock Pros are saying? Seriously. How hard do you need to be slapped in the face by common sense to finally realize that maybe not playing on Lock is probably for the best?

I really do hope you get your money off. But good god man, get a grip.
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-04-2013 , 01:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiJon
Oh, I'm sorry. Your unquestionable intellect and superior logic far surpasses my own. Let's beat on the doors of Lock Pros because they surely know the deep seeded operational know-how of Lock Poker or are real buddy buddy with the suits at the top. They are totally in the know and Durrrr/FTP, Joe Sebok/UB, etc were all outliers when it came to management transparency as we saw in the past to get the truth out by scandalous sites. Yup, we never saw this one before.

Yes, I retract my statement. Let's completely devote all of our time bashing human billboards to get at the bottom of things. That makes a lot of sense...

... Wait no, that sounded unbelievably ****ing ******ed.

Additionally, as you already said you know the site is broke, you know there are withdrawal problems... Who gives two ****s what the Lock Pros are saying? Seriously. How hard do you need to be slapped in the face by common sense to finally realize that maybe not playing on Lock is probably for the best?

I really do hope you get your money off. But good god man, get a grip.
I agree with you BUT they are not just human billboards. They are the ones who have been actively recruiting players to the site with complete cognizance of how ****ty their site is and how much of a scam it is. Big difference between being a Tom Dwan and being a lock pro who sends tweets every ****ing day even though players are getting scammed

Look at the photos in the Portugal accusation thread and other Lock threads in the subforum. They are far more buddy buddy than you think.

edit: reread the guy you quoted, and agree 100% with you he is a ****ing idiot
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-04-2013 , 01:27 AM
Ive been thinking this for awhile now. I'm slowly losing respect for Mizrachi and other Lock pros for accepting money from this company. The Grinder probably doesn't hit NVG too often but I also dont think he has no idea how ****y Locks payouts are either... and how shady Lock is in general....

Last edited by SGT RJ; 05-04-2013 at 09:16 AM.
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote
05-04-2013 , 01:30 AM
Well, Mizrachi is enough of a dip**** to lose 14 million dollars in tournament winnings via degen gambling and tax evasion and supporting Chino Rheem, seems a good fit to be with Lock imo
***Official Lock Poker Crisis Containment Thread*** (former Call Out Lock Pros thread) Quote

      
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