The rakeback issue just seems like a complete stitch up for regular but non-grinder type players. With the 27% rakeback and the easy to achieve Ironman it was easy to get 35+% from not much over an hour's play a day, yet now we're in line to get a maximum of 25% plus an extra couple of % for no rakeback charge on spending points. Somehow I doubt an hour will get me to that top level of 25%, so I, and many other similar players that were nicely catered for by FTP will be much worse off at FTP2.

Ironman was the key; it encouraged regular play but not really grinding, perfect incentive for regular recreational players, or for making recreational players play more regularly which surely is an ideal scenario.

The VIP club at Stars is practically worthless unless you're chasing SN or SNE, but FTP used to offer something worthwhile for non-grinders; looks like that has gone out of the window.

I agree 100% (altho i fall into the heavy grinders category)

Another point not mentioned much itt is limit variants

limit was pretty juicy before BF (even tho not as much as the golden PP days) thanks to the stars/FTP dichotomy. Nowadays only stars has some tables running and they are reg-infested since all regs moved there. One would think that once FTP came back, limit might resurrect a little bit, but to play limit you do need rb (or a decent cashback) since edges are smaller and the impact of rake so much higher. 25% will simply not cut it.

Probably most ppl itt dont give a smeg about limit, but it is a part of the poker economy that is slowly dying. And it looks like some other poker niches might soon die too, the way things are going. And this should worry us.

U will either be a 24 tabling grinder nit sweating blood to get SNE or u will be pretty much toast to the rake, cause face it, the trend is clear, the rake has gone up (except for a few minor instances) and the rewards have gone down...

oh well... /end rant

If FTP cut rake and capped the rakeback at 25% people ITT would still be mad that they got less rakeback

um no..

Anyone know if there will be a rakeback charge for spending the pre-bf ftps? Would be great if they didn't considering I saved up so many points without spending

If they would simply be fair enough to combine PS+FT VIP-levels/rakeback, it'd all be good.

24 Tabling nits for the most part are fairly straight forward to beat (IMO at 200NL and below) so having lots of them shouldn't concern you too much - although obv you won't be beating them for as much as the more loose aggressive players but long term they'll be more profitable than a fish who ditches you 4 buyins and vanishes. If you don't like 24 tabling nits - study their game and learn how to beat them then you'll start to search for them rather than avoid them. Not exactly the most fun player to play against though!

I am certainly happy with 25% rake back.... BUT

A few things I would like to have clarified:

1: 10 FTP's for $1 in rake paid?

2: If $2.50 per 100 FTP is the cap on this bonus... from past experience achieving the highest tier of a VIP system on any poker site is always insainly hard. Does this mean most players can wave goodbye to anything close to this 25% rake back?

Thanks guys!

Obviously most of the 24 tabling nits are bad, there is a reason why they just barely break even. The point is that the games aren't fun. It is just plain boring to have too many of them on your tables and the fact that most of them are slow/timing out makes it worse.

The worst part of this and my main concern is that most of them are sitting out instantly after a fish busts, every I table I play breaks up after 10-20mins, all these nits do is taking action but they are never willing to give any. It not only kills the fun, but it scares away the recreational players. It must feel horrible to see 5 players instantly sitting out after he busts.
The old FTP was heading into the right direction concerning gameplay and fun games and I hope it will stay that way.

Lol, you're not the brightest. This only works if you assume every account rakes the exact same amount.

In fact that 1/3 of the player pool with rakeback probably accounted for like 70% of rake (wouldn't be surprised if it's way more), thus ftp only kept 81.8c on every dollar.

edit: some guy already replied pointing out your idiocy

um .... yes

Looking forward to Full Tilt relaunching...

Just a few quick questions:

Will the Full Tilt points we had before the site was shut down still be present?

There is a chance that my Full Tilt funds were being processed from Full Tilt to Instadebit at the time the site was shut down, will be funds still be in limbo? Or will they be reinstated back into my Full Tilt account?

As a student, I desperately need this money. Like most of you, I've been waiting since the day of the closure to recoup what I've considered a loss.

I'm 100% sure I made a withdrawal before the closure and that the funds were subtracted from my FTP account. They never made it to my Instadebit account, and when I contacted Instadebit, they said Full Tilt had not began the transaction.

Anyone able to provide some insight in regards to what situation I may be facing in early November when the site is relaunched?

Thank you

1) Can we get more details about the opening promotions. I think having to either deposit more or even just having to leave all our money in there is plan wrong. I desperately need that money but don't want to, nor should i have to miss out on the opening rewards/bonuses. My suggestion is you have double, triple, or even quadruple happy hour points. This will reward players thus improve traffic and generate rake and most importantly ensure the FTP brand stays alive as well as ease people into the back stabbing that is the new rewards system.

2) I said it before but ill post it again; How about having a 20% rake/cash back scheme for everyone then lots of round the year promotions that would give another 10-20% OVERALL for higher volume players. This caters for the recreational players who will play more with their weekly "free" money; generating more rake anyway; and provide the regulars the incentive to play there long term.

3) Also what occurs to rake races from an affiliate like rake the rake; are they also scrapped?

that's an impressive level of entitlement you got going on there buddy

http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/help-center.shtml

im glad they changed it since i couldnt get rakeback. noobs will have less money.. but oh well.. that rb deal was so sweet and i had to keep hearing about it.

what's your definition of "noobs"?

guys goin on good runs, losin it and spendin their rb? i dont know. im just glad i dont have to hear about it anymore from people i know. semi-noobs lol

Is there anyway to know beforehand what my bankroll is? I guess FTP doesn't release that information, but maybe some tracking site? Thanks!

If you'd care to share your formulae for accurately calculating % of casual play vs regs/grinders I'll be happy to work it out again.

You're claim that the 1/3 of players who did get rakeback paid 70% of the total rake is much more ridiculous than my example, so if I'm not the brightest, I guess you can count to potato then huh?

I'd say that there were probably quite a large number of regs that didn't get rake back but still chose to play on FTP anyway. There are more than a few players who went straight to FTPs website and installed the software that turned into full time players that have no idea what rakeback is, don't read forums like this or even care to talk about poker.

I'm aware of the short falls of the example but the main point was you need to look at it from the business point of view. Bitching about whatever loss you perceive does nothing to help get a system in place that works well for both sides.

Agree 100%! there should be a limit on the number of times you can leave one table and re join another- just like the disconnect limit. make it 3 per hour and problem solved I think?

^^
angry dad who seized son's account.

You're right. The 70% figure is silly. It's probably more like 99%.

Haha, are you serious? I was really underestimating when I said 70%. This is my guess for the player base:


30% have rakeback:
- about 29% of these will be regs playing the most hands raking the most money.
- 1% will be inactive accounts.

70% don't have rakeback:
- about 55% of these will be completely inactive and will have only clocked a few thousand hands in the existence of their account.
- about 10% will be fish who regularly deposit, play and lose, they probably play 1k hands a week or smth contributing little overall.
- the other 5% will be regs who play a bit, but it's unlikely these guys put in loads of volume as they're not getting benefits of other sites.



As the guy above me said, it probably worked out that the 30% of players with rakeback actually raked well over 90% of total rake.

Also it's clear despite your last post trying to dispel my arguments that you initially didn't even think about how different sections of the player pool contribute to total rake. Not the brightest as I said.

Some of these will play for bronze/silver iron man. Which can get them about 10%-20% rakeback which is likely MORE than what they get from Stars.