But isn’t “that dude” in this case NYPK?

Also if you guys read his post he did not deposit $40K in this site... he ran $800 to $40K is what I read. Much different than depositing $40K... I still think he’s owed the full amount.

It's not different at all.

It doesn't matter how you got to your $40k balance.

If you legitimately won the money, it's just as good as if you already had the money and deposited it.

Either way, if the $40k isn't paid out, then some jerk just stole $40k from you.

I'm still scratching my head as to why anyone was trusting this Adnan clown, given the thread calling him out in April.

Just thought i'd jump in and help shed some light on PPPoker as an app and some things people are missing from here.


First of all to the point posters were saying it costs almost nothing for a club to operate.

For a large club - 7 star (1000 member cap) it costs 37,000 diamonds per month. $50k diamonds costs $729 USD

All chips sent to players incur a 5% vig. For example sending 1000 chips to someone costs a club 1050 chips.

Operating costs equal slightly over 11% of your gross weekly running barebones without paying for any extras. The entire app is run like a game of candy crush so you can buy all sorts of stuff for your players, data reports and a few other things - Everything costs money.


In regards to the app being superused or unfair, that's unlikely to be the case. Club operators have no access to back-end anything.
It's another reason why Adnan's story sounds like nonsensical rubbish that he's saying admin are actively going through hands and investigating, or that money found to be stolen via cheating would be refunded. As someone who runs a club of approx 700 this would be completely impossible given the tools we have.

The app is Gaming labs certified to be random,
https://gaminglabs.com/services/certification/
Put as much weight behind their brand as you like, but i'd say that's relatively safe.

PPPoker staff have very little involvement within a club usually only assisting with attempting to join clubs into unions to increase profit. Their staff are on commision deals in specific regions. Their best interest is in keeping players safe, clubs alive and combining.

In regards to the payout system, if they're using deposits to pay cashouts they're stealing or overticked. It's very easy to keep positive cashflow in these clubs as everything is tracked very well.

Happy to answer any other questions, noticed a ton of misinformation - I'm not affiliated with pppoker as their staff, i just run a club.

yes it was. The fact that some dude was also a known scammer makes the people who put money into this seem even more foolish. I really dont feel bad for them.

I would not put money into one of the many app based poker sites with ANY dude. Given the ease of which they can scam, the temptations are just too great .

I dont know much more about these apps. I think they are more popular in other parts of the world (Asia?), but keep popping up and then self-imploding here in the US.

Though the RNG might be GLI certified as random. its utter B.S non-sense to call this out as some sense of legitimacy.

The RNG has nothing to do with ponzi schemes or god mode, which are likely the #1 and #2 root cause of scams in this shady underbelly world of the already shady poker world.

How much collusion/cheating do you think is taking place and how likely is any activity like this to be detected?

What other relevant information do you think people should know about when it comes to playing on the site and not being scammed?

As someone who has played on shady sites in the past and had money stolen from me, not everyone has the same knowledge or ability to navigate this part of the online poker world. This is the way you learn and decide what level of risk you want to take on.

Some see the way this guy markets the site on IG, other people w/ influence promoting the club, people seeming to have an enjoyable experience in the club from marketing and/or word of mouth on how soft the games are. It is a very strong marketing strategy these people use and people who don't have as much knowledge can easily be taken advantage of.

Yes, I agree no one should be trusting this dude with any amount of money ever in their entire lives but I'm not going to sit back and ridicule someone because they are getting scammed by him when they should have known better. This is the ****ed up state of online poker. People are ridiculing the small % of people who actually ****ing win on these sites instead of focusing that attention on improving the problem or on the people who are raking all the money and scamming players.

This guy put a small amount of money on there to see what it is all about, that is what I would suggest people do if they REALLY wanted to try out a club (never this club.) Won a bunch of money and now has a legitimate right to want to get the money back. It isn't like he deposited $40k and now trying to cash it out. This money comes from countless other bad players who also deposited money on the site hoping to win and cash money out themselves.

These players are just the ones that have come forward for an amount they see worthy. I can't imagine how many other people are out there without social media and no idea where to go to w/ regards to their own negative experiences.

That varies club to club by a HUGE margin. In a small close knit club (Which could still gross a huge amount) the collusion/cheating could be zero or close to.

In a large Union you would almost certainly be getting colluded or cheated in some fashion.


You should keep small balances, make sure you know someone who's accountable for balances and yes they're as dodgy as the head of the club.

It's not inherently scummy or ponziesque. You just have to realize that with PPPoker any scummy idiot can create a club for free, receive 10k free chips and the sky is the limit for him.

I run everything above board because for me making an absurd amount honestly is far better than an exit scam. I hold about 70k. All of this stuff is very subjective.

Thank you. I ask that question having a strong idea of the answer but was interested on how you perceive things to be in general as you have experience on the operator side (allegedly )

I've met people who talk about colluding on these clubs as a badge of honor. The process to do so is very easy. The security in place to prevent this is non-existent. I agree you should keep a small balance on most of these sites or find a very trusting agent and someone who will guarantee your funds if something was to happen. (also a risk)

I do think that you can run well, find a smaller close-knit club with honorable agents, operators & players but you do have to run well to find this.

I agree that all clubs aren't approaching things from a scummy or ponziesque point of view. The problem is that the ones that are can take advantage of those who don't understand the difference very easily. You not only have to worry about being scammed by these people, you also have to worry about these people actively hunting you themselves & together w/ their friends as the weaker player as well.

I know some people making an incredible amount of money either as the main person in charge of the club/site and as agents for other club/sites. I also know players making a lot of money on these type of sites. In theory, there should be no reason to want to **** all that up. We know that isn't how it works.

It's interesting in that the people winning money on these type of club/sites don't have much incentive to let others publicly know for a few different reasons. One could argue that endorsing a specific operation as legit because you have won money on it might actually help to bring more bad players in and keep more bad players playing on the site but it doesn't work that way very often. Players talk privately about them winning money and that is one of the reasons these options are so popular as the word of mouth spreads locally.

I sympathize with the people who are getting screwed out of money. But this has screamed scam since the beginning.

All of the people depositing onto this site given all the red flags are moronic IMO. This guy is a convicted felon, stole money from his own fathers company. He lives at home with his mommy but bought a Bentley. He brags about having a 7 figure net worth but dresses like someone who makes minimum wage.

I’ve played with him in person. Both at the poker table, and in the pits. He posts all the IG stories about big hit and runs. He’s so full of sh*t. Just a few months ago I watched this joker move from blackjack table to blackjack table buying in for 2-300 dollars at a time, losing, visibly frustrated, because he’s losing money he can’t afford to lose.

Everyone that deposits in his club is just funding his lazy lifestyle. I honestly can’t believe people are still sticking up for this guy.

I’m not really the type of person to wish harm on people but I hope he gets what is coming to him, whether it be legally, or in the streets....because let’s be honest, he’s gonna screw over the wrong person eventually.

More on this particular point as I can see how this doesn't make much sense to some people. To some of us, this all seems like such an obvious stay away for a number of different reasons. We have years of knowledge on why that is the case. Some without years of knowledge on why they should stay away will stay away because they are able to see the red flags. Also, no one in the poker community with any type of influence really speak up about these operations, why you should stay away, or if you aren't going to stay away, what you should look out for. And even if they did, there are so many people out there completely unaware of what exactly is taking place and are looking for a place to play poker. Some people aren't really looking for a place to play poker but they find out about it through IG + word of mouth and are lured in because why not.

The way these rooms are marketing through Instagram and word of mouth can make them seem very trusting to people. The rooms are constantly talked about in live poker rooms. People on Instagram that you perceive to have some type of authority/credibility/respect because they have a certain follower count and you see people interact w/ them a certain type of way make you trust these rooms. The marketing you are being hit w/ repetitively is that, these games are soft, it's easy to deposit, these people are playing, I'm trustworthy because others say I'm trustworthy, come play. You aren't being hit with the other side of that which contains all the possible risk involved. And even if you were, people are ****ing degens I imagine a decent number of players don't trust these rooms but are willing to gamble.

I'm going to post more in here on this topic because it's clear from reading a lot of these posts that most people have no idea what they are talking about, don't know anyone operating the clubs, haven't played on the clubs, don't understand the mindset people take on when they do choose to play on them, probably don't know many people playing on them, can't understand why anyone would play on them and so on.

Most of the comments seem to be "OMFG WHY WOULD YOU TRUST THIS GUY, ****ING IDIOTS, YOU GET WHAT YOU DESERVE" without exploring or understanding the more interesting details of the entire topic.

The funniest thing to me is I see a lot of players in the live games I play in playing on these apps on their phone while they are in the live game. Most of them are typically the worst players too. Degens going to degen I guess!

Expanding on this a bit more and why I think it is an issue.

This entire situation and the club structure don't make much sense to a majority of people in general, it can be a bit confusing to really wrap your head around outside of the immediate allegations.

Threads like this are a great way to educate people and explain the pros/cons, what is happening, what to look out for, how to think better + understand it and so on.

When a majority of the comments aren't helpful because it's clear the person commenting doesn't really understand what is happening (if you are familiar with what is happening) you realize that these comments do more harm than good in explaining what exactly the issues are.

This is a big reason why these clubs are so popular among many others. The word of mouth aspect of marketing. When Awful Andy is playing these games constantly, word gets around quickly. In theory, Andy should realize how big of an immediate $$$EV mistake he is making (because as others have pointed out, how ****ing dumb are these people, it's so obvious the risks) but that isn't how degens operate

I do think there are clubs where you have a legit chance to win money and aren't risking getting scammed to a large degree which makes this entire option a decent option if you understand how to navigate it and what to look out for.

if Andy is playing on a smaller club, where the agent/operator has a long-standing reputation built up for operating similar platforms and in the games I play is Andy, and Andy's friend Donky Dave, me playing 4 handed w/ them is going to be a spot where I am super +EV and a huge favorite to make money assuming everything else is on the up and up. These types of spots do exist plenty. The trick is to find them consistently while avoiding putting yourself in the -EV spots on different levels.

Sorry, ignorance is no excuse. In fact people are so delusional these days with social media and stuff they are precisely the audience I would prefer to be targeted. Also Adam admitted that even knowing the facts he would play in an illegal game again.

If that is the result of a risk/reward consideration then don't come crying to mommy when the thing blows up.

I 100% agree with you... what I was referencing were the people that said “why would you trust them with $40K??” and so I was just saying he didn’t deposit $49K, he won it. Once he won that money he doesn’t have any choice but to trust them and hope they pay him out. You see what I’m saying? It’s not like he had a choice once he won the money, but if he deposited that kind of money then he had a choice.

Frankly I would be more shocked if collusion isn't happening. Maybe not every hand every table etc. but within any club it is going to be way to tempting for a few players who are stuck, greedy or both.

just conjecture, but operator has perfect info on who the whales are (also obv play for them would be to have agents target whales they know to join / deposit with stories of big scores and easy juicy games)

So you are right in that no need to be all games. If I were going to cheat players, I would focus on the whales and let the little guppies do what they want.

I would also let the whales win a bit in the beginning and then slowly bleed them to death over time. Does that sound familiar to any rec players who have delved into these sites at the higher levels?majority


P.S. not even talking yet about the obvious ability for players to cheat. right now I wonder if chunk of operators are even legit.

Is the cheating operator the exception or the rule ? dunno. I suspect latter.

So PPokerInside, how do the club managers make money? They take a fee when people buy chips? Like if I buy $100 of chips I only get $95? How does the rake work? The games are raked, but it's the proxy chips that get raked. Do the raked chips go back to the club managers? How do they convert them back to real money? They have to sell them back to players?

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...4&postcount=36

Here's how it was always going to play out. I am not actually sure if this was the big plug pull or just Adnan being lazy and ignorant enough to let it happen too early. If I were to guess from everything I've seen, it's probably the latter.

He's currently trying to out these guys all of a sudden on IG as cheaters. Accounts that are apparently colluding nonstop over what has to be a pretty significant sample as multiple randoms in his DMs say that they were their biggest nemesis and that something shady was definitely going on. The timing and all of a sudden "definitely did it" attitude doesn't seem a bit suspect? This is Adnan's go-to way of ruining credibility, just drag names through mud with random screenshots of random accusations.

Ill break it down for you how it works on PPpoker (to my knowledge)

To get 'PP chips' on a club, the club manager must first purchase 'diamonds' which are then converted to 'pp chips' at 100 diamonds to purchase 40 chips.

1 diamond = approx 1.5c a piece.

So if a club manager wants to 'create' 10k pp chips, it costs them around $150.

Now to how they make money.....

Once their club is up and running, they make money once those 10k chips 'disappear' to the rake. Simple.

Every 10k worth of deposits that get raked down the chute yields the manager around $9850.

But then you have to factor in table costs, club fees, rakeback to your players and agents. stiffed tabs. etc. But thats the general idea of how money is produced to a manager on pp poker.

So in an ideal club, said manager purchases 100k chips to get his club up and running.

$1500 startup cost on the PP chips, plus the startup costs for the club and tables.

As the chips dissapear to the rake the club manger now can do exactly what he did in the beginning. make another 1500 investment and purchase another 100k chips, which in return needs to be 'sold' to players who will play them out, and have them raked off the site in due time. Its all just one big cycle if that makes sense..

With all due respect, what you posted offers very little assurance because it was quite incomplete. That a random number generator is certified says little about the possibility of cheating in a game, of embezzlement by an operator, of collusion among players.

Can you share a link to something that explains the operation in detail , i.e. by whom and how player deposits are collected and held ? By whom and how cashouts are paid ? To whom and how the PPPoker fees of 5% and the other "money" are paid ?

Can this app be offered by a "club" to be played in the US, whether for real money or just for fun ?

Thanks.

Thanks.

So, the cub manager sells chips to players, presumably for cash, BTC or some other form of payment ?

Conversely, the manager cashes outs player chips by making a similar transaction ?

When a player cashes out, what happens to his chips ? Does the manager get them to resell or do they disappear ?

To whom does a manager pay the money to begin or continues to operate ?

When clubs form a "union"(network ?), are there cross-club games ? If so who guarantees the club players they will be paid if they win from another club's players , is there cross-cage liability between or among clubs ?

DAMN, who didn't see this coming? These sites are no more than a street bookie. I'm sure NYPD won't be dishing out probation for cases like these.