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Old 11-12-2010, 05:17 AM   #1
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Nosebleed Cash Games in Macau (Cliff Notes Version)

Despite the light turnout at the Asian Poker Tour Macau the cash games are some of the biggest in history as Tom Dwan, Phil Ivey, Chau Giang, and John Juanda are playing HK$5,000-10,000 with some Chinese businessmen. The game plays much bigger and there was about 40 million on the table last night when I saw the game.

Tom Dwan made it through day one in the 5K main event but only came downstairs to play one hand 10-4 off suit in an attempt to bust and get back to the cash game but instead he doubled up and asked me to call him as soon as he was under 20 BB's. We are down to 35 players and paying 18.

Juanda is the biggest winner in the game so far. Durrrr, Ivey, and Chau are stuck a combined few million HK$. When I asked Dwan when he was moving here he said "very soon".
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Old 11-12-2010, 05:20 AM   #2
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey Juanda, Giang)

If anyone was curious..

$1 = 7.8HK
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Old 11-12-2010, 05:30 AM   #3
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey Juanda, Giang)

They are kicking it up to 10,000-20,000HK$ tonight I am told.
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Old 11-12-2010, 05:32 AM   #4
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey Juanda, Giang)

Blinds are $641/1282 and now $1282/2564 . Is it just mixed games?
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Old 11-12-2010, 05:46 AM   #5
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey Juanda, Giang)

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Originally Posted by abdaar View Post
Blinds are $641/1282 and now $1282/2564 . Is it just mixed games?
It is straight No Limit, only the Starworld is allowed play PLO currently
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Old 11-12-2010, 06:34 AM   #6
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey Juanda, Giang)

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Originally Posted by Squibz View Post
I assume this means they're playing at the Wynn? Or is it at Grand Lisboa?
They are playing here at the Hard Rock Poker Room on the 2nd floor with 5K, 100K, and 1,000,000 chips.
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Old 11-12-2010, 06:37 AM   #7
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey Juanda, Giang)

Durr busted the main in 25th and the cash game broke at the same time but will resume in 4 hours.
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Old 11-12-2010, 09:21 AM   #8
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey Juanda, Giang)

Definitely going to be the home of the worlds biggest games in the future, a whole new ocean of rich/egotistical/stubborn/clueless/degen fish

So I imagine the table would play like a team 4v4 or something? I don't see durrrr and Ivey tangling when they could be outplaying the locals in a much more +EV way
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Old 11-12-2010, 11:47 AM   #9
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey Juanda, Giang)

I used to live in hong kong and can attest to the comical quality of players there.

I sit in a 50/100 HKD cash game at the Wynn with $25,000, 3rd hand in i get 1010 raise over an utg limper (random chinese businessman) who calls, board runs out 10c 3c 7s As Kd , bet 2/3 pot on each street only for him to check raise all in on the river and he shouts out FLUSH!

Im like 'sorry sir think youve misread your hand its not possible'
Hes turns over 8c4c and is like FOUR CLOVER FOUR CLOVER! FLUSH! FLOP FLUSH!

Hmmm, think you need some practise sir, GG
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Old 11-13-2010, 01:59 AM   #10
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey Juanda, Giang)

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Originally Posted by KingDan View Post
is this more or less a private game? i know at starworld they pretty much aren't letting white dudes play
This is correct, they moved the game to the Hard Rock during the Asian Poker Tour Series and generally the game is private but they opened it up this week. '

"Gweilos" are not always allowed to play in the game
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Old 11-13-2010, 02:06 AM   #11
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey Juanda, Giang)

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Originally Posted by indurrrr View Post
guys can any one reply to this please?
are they going to be playing in like 20 hours from now?
im from hong kong and would like to go to watch!
also can spectators watch the game?
It is much easier to watch here at the Hard Rock than at the Starworld where the game is in a private room. Will let you know when the game gets going again as I am told it will probably happen tonight.
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Old 11-13-2010, 03:06 AM   #12
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey Juanda, Giang)

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Originally Posted by Gullanian View Post
They probably take 50% of each others action
There are a couple people that have sold off 5% of themselves
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Old 11-13-2010, 03:35 AM   #13
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey Juanda, Giang)

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Originally Posted by peterk9 View Post
Uhm saw PLO 100/200 uncapped running earlier this year @ Wynn
Thanks, I was misinformed but PLO is growing from what I hear and it is no secret they like to gamble here.
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Old 11-13-2010, 09:59 AM   #14
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey, Juanda, Giang)

the chinese businessmen will let the pros play from time to time. however they limit the number of pros allowed on the tables. these guys are so freakin rich even tom commented that his bluffs dont really work because these guys have balls and more importantly have cash. after losing around 4 mill, tom then bought in for 10 mill.


i do have a couple of photos taken incognito, they're uploaded on my fb, nothin interesting really(no photoshop potential). this site has some shots of the players here in macau. http://www.theasianpokertour.com/



my friend ivan commented about one of the hands played,

Just witnessed a huge pot between Phil Ivey and Tom Dwan in a high stakes cash game here at the APT macau. Here are the details.

These were the few know players that were players, the rest i have never seen before.

Dwan, Ivey, Chau Giang, Jon Juanda.

Blinds were 5k/10k HKD

Anyways here was the hand.

Ivey straddles to 20k
Dwan double straddles to 40k.
MP calls 40k
Ivey completes the 40k
Dwan maskes a raise to 180k total
MP folds
Ivey re-raises to 1million alomost all-in
Dwan instant gos all-in
Ivey snap calls
Pot is approx 3M HKD
Hands Ivey ATos, Dwan 77
Board runs out, no Ace no Ten. Dwan ships the 3Million Pot.
When i left he was up about 3.5M HKD
And to mention he was happily drinking beer.
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Old 11-14-2010, 01:40 AM   #15
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey, Juanda, Giang)

The game moved back to the Starworld and Ivey, Dwan, and Giang were in the game again. I have not heard any news on the swings today except that Chau was winner.
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Old 11-14-2010, 07:05 AM   #16
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey, Juanda, Giang)

The latest hearsay is the Durr is now 1.7 million USD winner and that Ivey has gotten back to even. I think if they continue to win they WILL NOT be invited back IMO.
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:54 PM   #17
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey, Juanda, Giang)

Hi Guys,

Don't often post as myself, but Matt sent me a link. Thought I would provide some clarity and yes I play in the game on and off. Its best described as a semi private game. The days of Brian Rast just turning up and winning a few million US$ are definitely over, but the guys that run the game definitely enjoy the challenge of playing against the world's best. I invited both Phil and Tom to Macau to both the APT and to play in the high stakes games.

There is absolutely zero racism at this table. It is mainly the language issue (as somebody posted earlier) as usually half the people playing don't speak english so naturally talk amongst themselves. When guys like Phil and Tom are playing there is obviously a mixture of languages spoken.

These "businessmen" are generally involved in the gaming industry in some form, casino junkets, sports betting etc and instead of losing tens of millions playing bacarrat every year discovered poker 2 years ago and have taken to it. Some have become very, very good (and got some excellent coaching), some are still hopeless. Obviously not to the level of Ivey and Tom, but can hold their own and they are fearless which makes them dangerous. Think the FT guys adjusted their game somewhat after losing the early sessions.

They like action and thats why people like Tom Dwan they find very fun to play against. They do not like nitty pros and have been known to change a game from a 10k / 20k (HKD) game to a 10/20k with 20k ante to force the pros to play. With some of the guys from a sportsbetting background, private insurance side bets are a source of great amusement (and relief to some of the smaller players when involved in a big pot). They also prefer to play against people bringing their own money rather than a pro who has been staked by 15 different people.

I think the biggest pot this week was actually 16m not 20m as stated though they have been far larger in the past. Many "businessmen" in Asia like to come and play in the "Big Game" as it is known to mix and mingle with the regular players there (not the Western Pros).

Zero chance of this ever being televised and cameras in casino gaming areas are banned in Macau so pics can only be taken undercover. However, I do think one day relatively soon you may see the game find its way onto the internet every now and then.

Biggest hand I ever saw and arguably the craziest was a guy betting HK$28m on the river into a HK$51m pot with a gutshot straight draw against what turned out to be top set. He was down over HK$100m at the time and hit it.

Thanks Matt for hosting another well run tournament

Tom
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:10 PM   #18
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey, Juanda, Giang)

Forgot to add the game is usually at the Starworld Casino, level 3, "Poker King" poker room, it moves around a bit. For those of you that are serious about playing, contact Winfred Yu who manages the poker room and acts as liaison for the big game. Do not expect to bring online chips and be able to play, real money only!!
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:21 PM   #19
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey, Juanda, Giang)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hall View Post
Hi Guys,

Don't often post as myself, but Matt sent me a link. Thought I would provide some clarity and yes I play in the game on and off. Its best described as a semi private game. The days of Brian Rast just turning up and winning a few million US$ are definitely over, but the guys that run the game definitely enjoy the challenge of playing against the world's best. I invited both Phil and Tom to Macau to both the APT and to play in the high stakes games.

There is absolutely zero racism at this table. It is mainly the language issue (as somebody posted earlier) as usually half the people playing don't speak english so naturally talk amongst themselves. When guys like Phil and Tom are playing there is obviously a mixture of languages spoken.

These "businessmen" are generally involved in the gaming industry in some form, casino junkets, sports betting etc and instead of losing tens of millions playing bacarrat every year discovered poker 2 years ago and have taken to it. Some have become very, very good (and got some excellent coaching), some are still hopeless. Obviously not to the level of Ivey and Tom, but can hold their own and they are fearless which makes them dangerous. Think the FT guys adjusted their game somewhat after losing the early sessions.

They like action and thats why people like Tom Dwan they find very fun to play against. They do not like nitty pros and have been known to change a game from a 10k / 20k (HKD) game to a 10/20k with 20k ante to force the pros to play. With some of the guys from a sportsbetting background, private insurance side bets are a source of great amusement (and relief to some of the smaller players when involved in a big pot). They also prefer to play against people bringing their own money rather than a pro who has been staked by 15 different people.

I think the biggest pot this week was actually 16m not 20m as stated though they have been far larger in the past. Many "businessmen" in Asia like to come and play in the "Big Game" as it is known to mix and mingle with the regular players there (not the Western Pros).

Zero chance of this ever being televised and cameras in casino gaming areas are banned in Macau so pics can only be taken undercover. However, I do think one day relatively soon you may see the game find its way onto the internet every now and then.

Biggest hand I ever saw and arguably the craziest was a guy betting HK$28m on the river into a HK$51m pot with a gutshot straight draw against what turned out to be top set. He was down over HK$100m at the time and hit it.

Thanks Matt for hosting another well run tournament

Tom
Just FYI Tom is a player in the game as well and has held his own for sure.

I hope he continues to post as he is an excellent source of information about the games.
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:45 PM   #20
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey, Juanda, Giang)

Hi DS,

There have been a lot of funny moments, certainly for a game of this size has to be the most humorous I have ever seen (not that I can claim to be a global high stakes player).

A lot of it usually happens around the insurance side bets. Obviously the odds offered reflect a bit of vig for the "book" but when you hold AA versus a nut flush draw or open ended straight draw on the flop and there's over US$1in the middle its hard not to get drawn into taking insurance (well for a semi-fish like me anyway). Insurance is done on a card by card basis, i.e. turn card and then again river card. I can't disclose the biggest insurance pay out, but it was truly MASSIVE and I have seen insurance paid out once on a one outer.

One of the players is known as "All In" and when he's playing its very entertaining as he only has two bets, 4 bet raise pre flop and all in on the flop.

The length of the sessions are also lengendary with 20-30 hour sessions with a 6 hour break and then being repeated 4-5 times relatively common. One of the players has been known not to move, I mean not to go the restroom, eat, drink or shift position in his chair (other than pick his cards up and bet) for 8 hours.

Bluffing is highly respected (but don't get caught - its expensive)!!
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:48 PM   #21
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey, Juanda, Giang)

Re Isildur - Not sure ask winfred, would think extremely unlikely if other big name pros are in Macau at the time.
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:04 PM   #22
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey, Juanda, Giang)

OK, sorry last post - missed answering some of DS's questions, have to do some real work today after the APT week!!.

I have known the guys running the game for many years in Asia, I actually encouraged them to try poker a few years back as I thought they would enjoy it (and hopefully save them some money losses on bacarrat) and then one of their good friends also discovered the poker bug and the game sort of just started. It was originally at the Wynn in Macau but moved for a variety of reasons.

First session I ever played I lost despite probaably being a better player than nearly all of them at the time (now 2-3 of them are far, far better than I am - not that thats saying much re my own skill level). I am lucky enough to count JC Tran and Nam Le as friends and they gave me a few pointers and strategy tips for this type of game and I have done Ok since. I don't play often due to work commitments that have me travelling a lot.

Its great having guys like Chau Giang out there - "Uncle" as he is respectfully referred to by all that play, everybody knows he's a great player and enjoys his company (and stories).

Ok back to the boring work now, come on out to the next APT Macau event of Poker King tournament and come see for yourselves. Not sure if I am allowed to post a link here but check out www.theasianpokertour.com for what just went on. Macau is a really fun place for poker, nightlife with beautiful beach resorts for the post-poker R&R only 2 hours away in Thailand, Philippines and the like!!
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Old 11-14-2010, 11:53 PM   #23
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey Juanda, Giang)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Savage View Post
It is straight No Limit, only the Starworld is allowed play PLO currently
Actually the Wynn was the first to have PLO in Macau but the games at Starworld are usually smaller but run more often.
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Old 11-15-2010, 12:04 AM   #24
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey, Juanda, Giang)

I was playing PLO 25/50 HKD (3.25/7.50 USD) at Starworld... next table was NLHE with Johnny Chan and Chau Giang, next to that John Juanda and Tom Dwan (John left and Phil Ivey joined later).

Tom Dwan took a beat with J6 vs K6 on a flop of KJ6 but later went far in front calling an all-in from two players: AK vs QQ vs TT. Tom Dwan had the AK, flopped a pair and it stood up. The pot was around 2.8M USD

I had a chance to talk briefly with Tom a couple of days earlier and I found him very approachable and friendly. I was also very impressed with how polite he was to the casino staff and waitresses and to the other players in the game whether he was winning or losing.
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Old 11-15-2010, 12:11 AM   #25
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Re: Nosebleed Cash Games at APT Macau (Durrrrr, Ivey, Juanda, Giang)

Said I wouldnt post more till later, but somebody is monitoring for me.

I think I tried to cover the racism issue. There simply isn't any, there is some exclusion, but its nothing to do with race / ethnicity that is for sure. There are white guys, black guys (we don't use the African American descriptor in Asia so am not intending to offend here in any way) Indian guys, Asian guys and a whole load of half castes like me (Eurasian) that have played in the games. Let's try and focus on the poker, isn't that what this site is all about.

winfred tells me that Ted Forrest has turned up and is playing one of the 2 games, there are 2 big games playing 10k/20k and a 5k/10k. Phil apparently up large now.
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