Nobody's gonna want to play the game if they have to do extra **** just to see the flop.

Only decent solution to me is to ban all software that helps people play the game whether it's HUD's/BOT's/whatever and take all the funds when caught and perma ban. Sites might be too afraid enough bot kids won't play and hurt bottom line though but everything else proposed seems like a major game killer.

My favorite players at the table when I could play on stars were the Russian bots though; most regs were incapable of adjusting to them (spoiler alert, don't play like every other reg) though I reckon they're far better now.

Seems like the only good solution is to figure out how to beat the bots and drive them all out of business. (ie figure out tendencies and whatnot as all bots have this flaw)
Tougher in PLO though simply due to the edge of knowing other cards.

Botters would just keep botting and no one would spot them without a HUD

it's quite easy to set security measures only to high volume accounts.

There should be additional security checks for higher risk accounts. Maybe require that only the higher risk accounts boot from a custom operating system.

Definitely false. Only the low hanging fruit gets swept with this logic. There are lots of variations in play that have very little impact on the bottom line to disguise play.

i know youre trying to come of like you know ****. But lol at calling people scum and then saying "i know a few big russian affiliates and they know theyre bots" and then not naming...

I've seen this mentioned before itt but why doesn't pokerstars just hire someone like Schwein, or another highly competent player to do some form of live audit of any account which becomes suspicious? The number of accounts that are really going to cause concern should be quite small as a percentage of all active accounts. Asking someone to do a live hour skype audit shouldn't really be a problem for anyone. Opponents of that idea might argue that they don't want to give away any high level strategy but that shouldn't matter much if the auditor is already one of the best players and the duration is curt.

It seems like if you had an operator of a top .01% win rate account having little to no real poker talent it would be screamingly obvious for anyone who is a solid winner at those stakes to pick out in a live sweat Q&A environment. You would just have the account operator in question, on camera, matching the ID used to sign up, playing and answering pointed questions by the auditor about thought processes, bet sizes, adjustments, villain tendencies and every other nuance and relevancy that a noob hack would quickly trip over.

Someone who didn't cut mustard would likely stand out sorely within minutes.

Why wouldn't that work to weed out account operators who are clearly not capable of performing commensurately with the accounts win rate?

How do you think they finance the invasion of Ukraine. Putin bots like a mother.

They run bots and have deals with them.

Many boiler rooms and cpa abusers and bot players use big three poker affiliates too:

1. mask behind
2. Get the deals from (bot runners like winning ipads too)

How long it has taken for sites to spot bots is beyond me and another worry. 19 of 20 bots they spot before players do? So multiply by 20. And it is never ending. And adding the holecard sharing and other collusion and that these stuffs are also more or less automated.

Playing anywhere where one knows botting and collusion is happening is of course out until one sees the nationality or otherwise thinks one gets a legit game.

The rake the bots generated unlikely will be returned and it is money that the bots took out and keeping it is wrong. I wouldnt be surprised if the bots take a million per week out of poker.

It very much looks like people will just forget all about these things. There were bots, no more are, state of the art bot and collusion protection, millions of players a couple of bots, back to sleep.

Top50 winners, 49 are bots? With up to 20bb per 100 win rate at nlh200, forgot to lose some of it to another account it seems, **** happens.

At least we can partly pick our opponents, places and forms.

No, it's horrible. Captchas are frustrating for people and no problems for bots.

We have one conviction for collusion - Darren Woods. He set himself up as an affiliate of the sites and the money transfer people too. Getting just player money by cheating was not enough, he wanted the affilate cash too.

Anyway we have the 27 detected - anyone want to give me odds that they mostly come from a small affiliate that has almost all their affiliates as high volume players?

If you want to wrap up the wole conspiracy then catching the 27 on Stars let's you use what you know about those players to find links to other cheats, either coming from the same dodgy affiliate or using the same customer IDs to operate on other sites.

Yes it is crazy the lengths these people go to. Not sure about linking on 2+2, but look at this article. its not poker specifically, but trust me, there are many towns, groups, syndicates, whatever you want to call them like this all around the world. They do this for a living.

In mainland china you can theoretically go and buy the ids of an entire village for 100$ and then you have all the face accounts you need. That is if you want to spend the 100$.

I wouldnt play online.

I haven't read the thread, just heard cliffnotes from friends but if stars really isn't doing much about this and you guys think it's for fear of exposure or they're just being lazy *******s

shouldn't we

A) Mass email stars threatening to put pressure on pokernews and tweet to expose this issue if they do nothing about it
B) start hitting up twitter and exposing the issue - it's a pretty effective medium

yeah we'd probably take a hit on this as well but it's a much better alternative to take a short term sacrifice than let the bots run rampant and ruin the games for an additional 5bb/100 forever

they are doing something about it though...Tell your friends to give better cliffnotes

So this is the first time a bot ring has been caught by 2+2 users and it will never happen again due to Pokerstars doing something about it? hmmm


Syous-

I don't think trying to make this scandal a huge deal is the prudent thing to do at this time. Waiting until the full refunds come in is the time to cross that bridge. If players are getting screwed where pokerstars is not refunding rake and profiting off of their poor bot security measures then it's time to get the word out there.
If they realize that failing to catch this bot ring after so many hands is on them and they refund properly then it shows that they are serious this time and there's no need to bring bad press to the situation.

lolwat. he said stars isnt doing anything about it. Prettty sure all the people are under investigation and cant cashout. Theres also been plenty of nlhe regs who appear to be under investigation aswell. How exactly isnt that doing anything about it?

i didnt answer/talk about previous or future detection of bots so i have no idea why youre mentioning that to me. Go away.

I got 90$ back 2 weeks ago and I play hu from 2 4 to 50 100 on stars.
didnt play zoom/6max for like 2 years.only play nlhe.

odds are I lost way more but got only 90$ back cause guy/bot had emptied his account.

Evidently 4 of the suspected bots have re-appeared after taking a simultaneous "holiday" of 3 or 4 days.
See the main thread: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1238

Can someone post a link of Pokerstars response to this and explanation as to how/why this went on for over a year before it was detected by a PLAYER

Can you also post a link as to how much was taken out of the ecosystem by these bots

And post a link how much was given back to the affected players and what happened to these rakes the bots generated.


Have no fear about datamining in spin and goes. They are working hard at it. They couldn't have done more

Liink to PLO subforum thread

Cliffs: They've banned bots and haven't refunded ****. The case seems to still be pending between regulator and Stars. Pokerstars never issued a statement on this situation.

Was wondering what ever happened to this, completely slipped my mind ty for bump

ya well no problem

Frankly, I've lost patience with the way serious issues involving literally millions of dollars is being handled/ NOT handled here with very generic boilerplate responses.

It's just unfathomable this can occur continuously. These people need to be held accountable

Pokerstars, our money is paying your debt. Are the people in the security video you released that said bots are not a problem still working for your company? How did this happen. I will refer to the link however POKERSTARS why has no money been refunded

Are the people responsible for protecting the integrity of the games and had this bot ring slipped through the cracks still working there?

Nothing more frustrating watching those two lackadaisical dolts sitting on the desk looking uncomfortable as hell joking about everything being cool while bots were in the midst of stealing over a million.

Inb4 Renegreanu threatens to resign in order to win a concession for the affected players. A PLO freeroll with a $350 prize pool should make the complainers go away.

i got like $25 for about 800k hands cheated