Yes, but if you're going to make that comparison, you might want to keep in mind that every day at work for those people doesn't include hundreds of days where they lose money rather than being paid for their work. So, the comparison is ridiculous.

It seems like the second line of your OP, "1. It eliminates the Schedule A itemized deduction for gambling losses." would be a pretty huge deal, but has been shown to be incorrect, or at least very much in doubt. You might want to address this in some fashion. Or am I missing something?

Video Poker is a skill game. Many people like Chainsaw play it for a profit. Are you saying poker players should get a tax break but those who exploit Video Poker and progressive slot machines shouldn't.

So...what are the implications of a professional gambler forming an S-Corporation under this proposed plan? (i.e. to pay oneself a reasonable salary and distribute dividends for the rest).

Seems like some pass-through entitites might get screwed on % rates under the new tax plan, and other might get favorable treatment.

Back in reality we know recreational players are never reporting anything.

I don't see how anything really changes. Professional gamblers can't deduct the car ride to the casino? Oh, the tyranny! Eliminating that tax complexity is good overall for the tax code since it's just another surface for people to cheat, misinterpret, add up incorrectly, or miss out on because they are too poor for fancy accountants. It's another government bureaucrat on the other end that needs to be hired to police it.

It would be useful if a NVG mod would update the OP to note where the statements have been found to be inaccurate.

Crossposting from PokerXanadu in the Poker Legislation thread on this:
So, catastrophe over.

Doubling the standard deduction is fairly brutal for non-professional players, especially younger ones with fewer other life deductions.

u had me kind of scared there OP, this would have been 10x worse news than black friday. As far as mileage, sounds like from what I have read here those will no longer be a deduction?

Can someone clarify a few things for me? as a pro, in the future, will I be able to write off the following: miles, birth of a child, ICMizer subscription?

In the past all of these things would qualify as deductions.

IF that is the case, that is horrible for professional poker players. In any regular business (small or large), if one is limited in their business expenses where you could NOT carryover any net operating loss for the year (business expenses > income from business), many would think twice about starting the business in the first place. The advantage for filing a Schedule C for anyone who has the opportunity (and success/skill etc.) to use poker as a professional player in the eyes of the IRS would go away. I would guess everyone in that case would just file as a recreational player regardless whether they play poker for income full time or not.

so again no real info is posted about tax changes
thanks for nothing

I dont live in vegas, going to vegas without being able to deduct hotel expenses
means I wont go to vegas,, the economy will be reduced and taxes reduced.

of course none of you Geniuses can state real impact of law change.

You are welcome!

Is there specific information you were looking for, or did you just drop in here to be an *******?

You can, you know, use google and look it up yourself....

Boo ***king hoo.

One fewer winning player coming to Las Vegas.

Get a refund on your NVG membership dues, nit.

Just for clarity, you file as a professional poker player as your occupation?

Doesn't sound like Vegas is going to miss much..

If you file as a professional you can still deduct your business expenses. If you file recreationally you still CANNOT deduct business expenses. Nothing has changed.

The two major changes/effects of the tax bill are:

A. If you file professionally and have a losing year gambling you can no longer deduct business expenses that takes your total income below 0.

B. Recreational filers that will need to offset gambling winnings with gambling losses must itemize their deductions (no change from previous years). However, for 2018 the standard deduction has doubled so itemizing for the sole purpose of filing gambling losses will be more of a tax disadvantage.

The increase in standard deduction is a tax disadvantage not just for those that itemize.

Add this:

C. The personal exemption is eliminated, which is a tax disadvantage for those that take an itemized deduction for gambling losses.

It used to be that if you itemized, you still got the personal exemption. The personal exemption is now rolled into the standard deduction, so if you itemize deductions you are no longer getting the $4000+ exemption deducted from your taxable income.

Example for a single taxpayer with:
$12K in winning sessions
$10K in losing sessions
$5K in itemizable deductions other than the gambling losses.

Before the tax law changes:

$12K gambling income
$10K gambling loss deductions
$5K other itemized deductions
$4K personal exemption
= $2K taxable gambling income plus $9K in deductions against taxable income

After the tax law changes:

$12K gambling income
$10K gambling loss deductions
$5K other itemized deductions
= $2K taxable gambling income plus $5K in deductions against taxable income

Result: Additional $4K in taxable income.

Example for a single taxpayer with:
$12K in winning sessions
$10K in losing sessions
$0K in itemizable deductions other than the gambling losses.

Before the tax law changes:

$12K gambling income
$10K gambling loss deductions
$4K personal exemption
= $2K taxable gambling income plus $4K in deductions against taxable income

After the tax law changes:

$12K gambling income
$12K standard deduction
= $0K taxable gambling income

Result: Additional $2K in taxable income.

Example for a single taxpayer with:
$20K in winning sessions
$15K in losing sessions
$0K in itemizable deductions other than the gambling losses.

Before the tax law changes:

$20K gambling income
$15K gambling loss deduction
$4K personal exemption
= $5K taxable gambling income plus $4K in deductions against taxable income

After the tax law changes:

$20K gambling income
$15K gambling loss deduction
= $5K taxable gambling income

Result: Additional $4K in taxable income.

Example for a single taxpayer with:
$12K in winning sessions
$4K in losing sessions
$0K in itemizable deductions other than the gambling losses.

Before the tax law changes:

$12K gambling income
$6K standard deduction
~$4K personal exemption
= $6K taxable gambling income plus $4K in deductions against taxable income

After the tax law changes:

$12K gambling income
$12K standard deduction
= $0K in gambling income

Result: $2K less in taxable income.

Example for a single taxpayer with:
$8K in winning sessions
$3K in losing sessions
$0K in itemizable deductions other than the gambling losses.

Before the tax law changes:

$8K gambling income
$6K standard deduction
~$4K personal exemption
= $2K taxable gambling income plus $4K in deductions against taxable income

After the tax law changes:

$8K gambling income
$12K standard deduction
= $0K in gambling income plus $4K in deductions against taxable income

Result: $2K less in taxable income.

So there is a band of rec players who gain under the new tax law, if their net win is greater than the old personal exemptions and their total losses less than the new standard deduction; or their total winning sessions is less than the old standard deduction. (I think that is how it works out, but a math & tax expert should double-check.) All other rec players will have some increase in their taxable income under the new tax law, but I think it is the amount of the old personal exemptions at most.

This guy is a moderator?

I weep for the states and the industry as a whole.

You can really see how poorly this industry is run when you see the leaders of it make statements like this one.

Xanadu: would you mind posting a Cliff's of what came out of this entire episode? It's unclear from the OP and all of the side-tangents from the replies itself just what the take-away(s) are here.

Well he's not a leader, he's a moderator of a forum. He's just saying from a serious player's pov it's kinda a good thing.

Sorry bro, poker is not a team game. Less winning players at the table is a good thing for everybody else.

Not my fault your government taxes gambling winnings.

Cliffs:

Note: Even if you file professionally and have a winning year, you can't deduct business expenses that takes your total business income below 0 as the new law classifies business expenses as gambling losses for the pro gambler. You can no longer carry forward or backward such business expense losses to another year (for the 'professional gambler'). This limitation will expire at the end of 2025 - after that, unless another law passes, the pro will once again be able to deduct and carry forward or backward such business expense losses.

And, post like this are the reason poker is dying industry.

You've done a better job at destroying the game than the government. The government is no longer to blame, bro. YOU ARE.

"Everybody else" no longer has a goal to work towards thanks to guys like you. Breaking even is marketable to you?

Mods determine what post are allowed on the forum, what critiques are made of the sites, etc. That makes them leaders in a sense. Forums often influence the direction of the industry. In the case of this industry, this is the biggest forum.

Many "serious players" disagree with him.