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Old 12-30-2015, 11:02 PM   #1
blopp
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NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker)

Hi fellow poker players,

Im making this a new thread so people realize its a new strike/boycott 1 January. 1600++ people already signed up.

By signing up your joining just this boycott, not any future ones (will be seperate threads). And to be clear, the communities (outside 2p2) that are launching this joint strike have plans for further boycotts, unless PokerStars are willing to meet the demands Ive quoted (OP= Tannhauser).

Cliffs: There is a new PokerStars strike/boycott 1-7 January, where players stop playing online poker, and cash out at least 10% of their online bankrolls.

If you want to join, signup in the linked thread, preferably with your PS name, VPP count, and what games you play. https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...ation-1577951/

I assume most of you know what this is about but I still decide to quote Ansky from the December Boycott xpost in this forum. That thread made a real impact and gave lots of exposure.

Thanks

Skjervøy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansky View Post
There has been a thread in Internet Poker for some time now, but I thought I should make sure there was one in NVG as well, given how much traffic there is here. If you are interested in signing up, please post in the other thread as well as this one so that everyone is able to keep track of the numbers.

EDIT LINK: NEW THREAD 1 - 7 Jan



What is happening?

PokerStars/Amaya has announced an aggressive overhaul of the 2016 VIP system. They have deceived SNE players about benefits they would receive, are discontinuing the SNE program, and they have completely removed all rewards for high stakes (5/10+) cash games. While PokerStars claims the changes are to provide relief to recreational players, there is no such change happening. They are telling their players outright lies, and we will not stand for it. Beyond that, it follows an ongoing trend that PokerStars/Amaya has been taking in recent years. A site that was once clearly for the players, has completely lost sight of that.

I did my best to outline the changes and why they are so outrageous in this post:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=283

Why should Stars care? Don’t they want less pros on the site anyway?
I very thoroughly address that here:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1387

Where do I sign up?
Here! (updated link) https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...ation-1577951/


If anyone has any questions at all, please ask. Ask me, ask this thread, just get involved! I want everyone to be passionate about this. PokerStars has got to understand that we will not take this lying down. The fight is on, this is the first battle and we will continue fighting as long as we need to.

Thank you,
Dani Stern
Here is the specific demands for the January boycott

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tannhauser View Post

We demand
- rewards for all games and stakes offered
- a rewards review in games that have a low percentage of winners
- promised SN and SNE rewards for 2016
- regularly scheduled meetings with players from the community
These are suggestion we think will both benefit PokerStars and the players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tannhauser View Post
[B]
We suggest
- table starter rewards and happy hours
- lowering microstakes rake
If you want more information about why this boycott happen:

JoeIngram1 podcast: Discussing Pokerstars players strike with Dani Stern aka Ansky
JoeIngram1 podcast II: Daniel Negreanu (Dani Stern joins midway) joins me to discuss recent Pokerstars VIP Changes

This quote is from the January strike thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansky View Post

The way I see it (these are my own opinions, I don't necessarily represent others with this), we have three major fighting points:

1) SNE and SN rewards were promised, and not given, and that is not right. We demand this be made right.

2) Taking away rewards specifically for HS cash is an unfair attack on a specific subset of the poker community. It seems especially unbalanced, and goes way beyond what would be a fair redistribution of rewards. There are many ways to restructure the VIP system in an effective and meaningful way, but slashing 100% of rewards for the high stakes players is a very sloppy way of doing it.

3) The online poker community has a lot to say about online poker, and we'd like the opportunity to talk about it with PokerStars. PokerStars and players have many aligned interests, we do not want to be enemies in this. I suspect that because there is so much noise to come out of the poker community, many at Stars don't think it's worth listening to us anymore. I'd like to prove them wrong about that. I don't expect Stars to hand us a living, I do expect them to be honest, fair, and open with us. I am apparently going to get a meeting soon with some executives, and I want to prove to them that the players can help move the game forward and adapt over time. I fully respect PokerStars right to run their own business, just as I expect them to respect our decisions as a community.
If you want even more info, visit the December 2015: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) thread
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:15 PM   #2
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

if ppl jus played on other sites eventually stars would get the message and have to rethink.

as it is anyone would think theres only one site to play on.

stars obv don't care about breakeven pro grinders that need rb to survive, pros don't need rb to be a winner at $5/10+, the recs at this level prob don't play this level to earn starcoins, whats the big deal?
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:26 PM   #3
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

ya thats what I've been doing-- moving alot more of my action to other sites. If you guys don't want to fully boycott stars, please consider at least moving some of your action to other sites
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:28 PM   #4
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

i understand first attempt was a hail mary to get stars to honor SNE, but this is just dumb and prob does more harm than good (does stars really want to set the precedent of being able to get bulled by a strike???)
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:30 PM   #5
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

Especially a strike which they know is going to end so shortly and many would be off for new years, travelling to PCA and a host of other reasons.

Precedent or not if it were a month long or indefinite strike that was severely going to effect their bottom line this may be different however.
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:31 PM   #6
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

When do you understand that a boycott is what is good for stars?

Stars does not need grinders or winning players. Stars needs depositing players. When you leave their experience increases and they will deposit more.

Leaving is exactly what pokerstars wants you guys to do.

I am always surprised how little poker players understand the poker ecology.
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:34 PM   #7
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by knircky View Post
When you leave their experience increases and they will deposit more.
I'm not so sure about this.........
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:35 PM   #8
Rx_
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by knircky View Post
When do you understand that a boycott is what is good for stars?

Leaving is exactly what pokerstars wants you guys to do.
This is true, but if more people keep leaving prizepools will shrink and fish will take notice to this, especially if another site really starts to emerge. We can't win this overnight, but if we as consumers help support other sites, I think we can all benefit from it



and what's the point of coming in here to deter other regs from boycotting? Makes no sense.
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:53 PM   #9
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

Have fun. Good luck.
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:59 PM   #10
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

i support the strike, gl
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Old 12-31-2015, 01:34 AM   #11
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

LOL this is gonna do nothing, a billion dollar company that knows you guys will all come back after 7 days because you have no where else to play or refuse to take your business elsewhere but GL and hopefully Stars pulls its head out of it assssssss
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Old 12-31-2015, 01:40 AM   #12
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

I will be boycotting. I'll probably play a few hands in March just to see if the games are as bad as I'm predicting.

After close to 20 million hands, and over 6 million VPPs:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeleaB View Post
It's been emotional

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Old 12-31-2015, 01:54 AM   #13
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

So many experts in all of these threads expressing how little these boycotts will do, that's the spirit, why don't we just let these massive companies continue to **** us over at every opportunity?

Gl boycotters.
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Old 12-31-2015, 02:22 AM   #14
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Like2Limp View Post
So many experts in all of these threads expressing how little these boycotts will do, that's the spirit, why don't we just let these massive companies continue to **** us over at every opportunity?

Gl boycotters.

Who's "we" whiteman?

Stars is doing the right thing to at least try and save online poker as an enjoyable gaming experience. Lol boycotters, delusional and self serving as per usual
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Old 12-31-2015, 02:25 AM   #15
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpnrun View Post
delusional
This is the only part of your post that makes any sense. It's obviously what you are.

I do like your new location though at least you are finally being honest about pretty much only being here to troll
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Old 12-31-2015, 02:44 AM   #16
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

Can I just play the 11$ Phase one and 33$ Big twice a week, and still join? Few games on Sunday to go with the Phase two, but only red events.

If that won'T work, how much karma and bragging right points do I get if I quit it completely for January? It's not an easy decision, despite my tiny volume


Edit:
Now I have read the the OP, and I can easily do that. Allowing me to break my get up before noon new year-#s proomise for another week easily
I am in!

After-edit:
Nah, it'S just highstakes cash guys crying there, nothing I can identify with

Final-edit:
In a global galactic sense, it makes sense to support it. I'll do it

Last edited by Contemplater; 12-31-2015 at 02:52 AM.
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Old 12-31-2015, 04:07 AM   #17
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

I still don't understand the lack of support or understanding on what these set out to accomplish.

As a rec, I have no real weight to throw behind this, but support it fully.
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Old 12-31-2015, 04:49 AM   #18
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeleaB View Post
I will be boycotting. I'll probably play a few hands in March just to see if the games are as bad as I'm predicting.

After close to 20 million hands, and over 6 million VPPs:
unfortunately it seems exactly like a result that Stars want to achieve with their actions.

gl in 2016 ppl.
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Old 12-31-2015, 05:12 AM   #19
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeleaB View Post
I will be boycotting. I'll probably play a few hands in March just to see if the games are as bad as I'm predicting.

After close to 20 million hands, and over 6 million VPPs:
Graph of 20m hands needs to be posted imo
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Old 12-31-2015, 05:55 AM   #20
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

I wouldn't really say that it does nothing. Stars has been getting a lot of negative attention over the last 2 months. I have no idea how that impacts them financially, but I would imagine that if it were up to them, they would choose not to get that negative attention.
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Old 12-31-2015, 05:59 AM   #21
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

OP,

You need pokerstars more than they need you, so you are not in a position to make demands. That's the truth.

The planned boycott might make you feel better by expressing that you are ****ed off, and that's ok, but it wont even make the slightest difference to Stars.
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Old 12-31-2015, 06:23 AM   #22
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaycareInferno View Post
I wouldn't really say that it does nothing. Stars has been getting a lot of negative attention over the last 2 months. I have no idea how that impacts them financially, but I would imagine that if it were up to them, they would choose not to get that negative attention.
Did they really? TBH I stopped following the various threads on the subject but am interested in hearing what kind of non-poker media writes about it.

Personally, I highly doubt a 7 day strike changes anything. On the other hand, an indefinite strike might help answer lots of questions within a couple weeks.

Maybe Amaya retreats, maybe they just don't do anything and wait what happens or maybe they decide they like the new way it is and start removing more benefits from grinders.

How long will it take for the first grinders to give in and how good will the games be for them while the other regulars are still on strike? At what time will the majority of participating grinders decide to either end their boycott or quit poker?

From all I hear, there's zero reason to believe Amaya will give in. Therefore it would be an even more impressive success story for the boycotters if they'd win.
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Old 12-31-2015, 06:55 AM   #23
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by madlex View Post
Did they really? TBH I stopped following the various threads on the subject but am interested in hearing what kind of non-poker media writes about it.

Personally, I highly doubt a 7 day strike changes anything. On the other hand, an indefinite strike might help answer lots of questions within a couple weeks.

Maybe Amaya retreats, maybe they just don't do anything and wait what happens or maybe they decide they like the new way it is and start removing more benefits from grinders.

How long will it take for the first grinders to give in and how good will the games be for them while the other regulars are still on strike? At what time will the majority of participating grinders decide to either end their boycott or quit poker?

From all I hear, there's zero reason to believe Amaya will give in. Therefore it would be an even more impressive success story for the boycotters if they'd win.
I haven't seen anything about it in non-poker media. I do think that people underestimate how informed casual players are though. I play a lot of small stakes live poker and quite often people are talking about things that they read here. There are a ton of casuals that lurk NVG and other similar places online and word gets around whenever there is a buzz about something.

I agree with you that Amaya isn't likely to change their course because of any of this, but that's not the same as saying that it will do nothing. Even if Amaya does everything exactly as they would have otherwise, some players may not deposit on the site because of the negative attention. Some other sites may be less likely to do shady things to their customers, or more likely to offer good things. There are a lot of positive results that could potentially come from it other than just Amaya doing a 180 and changing their mind about everything.

Of course there will be lots of regs that continue to play there anyway. There were regs playing on UB right up until the lights went out. That doesn't meant that they didn't suffer negative consequences as a result of their cheating scandal.

I do think that people who want to play poker for a living would be doing themselves a big favor to keep more options available so that they aren't financially dependent on any particular income stream and wrecked by it going south on them. Anyone that's been around for a while should know that by now.
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Old 12-31-2015, 07:42 AM   #24
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

As a player who only hops on to play 1/2 cash games every now and again I cant see how this is affecting me negatively.

I might get back on pokerstars, they are making much needed changes.
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Old 12-31-2015, 07:51 AM   #25
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Re: NEW: Strike/Boycott of PokerStars (xpost from Internet Poker) 1-7 Jan 2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by Special_One View Post
As a player who only hops on to play 1/2 cash games every now and again I cant see how this is affecting me negatively.

I might get back on pokerstars, they are making much needed changes.
Well, there's two different issues here even though a lot of people have failed to separate them.

There's the issue of Stars changing their system in a way that will give much less rewards for play to its players. Good or bad, they have every right to do that, and by itself that probably won't have much effect on people that just play for funzies when they feel like it.

The other issue is that Stars used deception to cheat some of its players out of large amounts of money that are owed to them under the existing system. That doesn't directly affect most players, but it should make anyone that plays on or is considering playing on the site more wary of them.
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