and how do u know the guys wasn't just watching porn and jerking off.

If you want to fix the time problem there are direct ways to do it. Banning HUDs would be a stupid way to solve it. After all only about 1/3 of players use them.

What do you mean with better?

I agree the games are "bad" but not because of HUDs. I would not want to play poker without HUDs the same way I would not want to do banking without an online account where i can see my transactions every time vs once per month per paper mail.

To be clear, I am pretty sure you have noticed correctly that the games are bad, but do not understand why they are bad.

let's be honest all boils down to money.

If a recreational player plays once a week for a few hours verses a regular player with 100 times the volume. then unless there's a hundred times the amount of recreational players to regular players the regular is bringing way more revenue to the site.

Like any other sport the professionals dictate the outcome. as much as the owners like to think they do with technology the way it is Twitter & forums if enuf regulars mass up and stop playing for a few days the site would finally realize that they cannot cater to one of the other.

would it come to that? I don't know but if you upset the regs enough to where the conditions are just unbearable yes I believe it is plausible.

put it this way if you took every single regular player out of the game and your left with only recreational players (keep in mind the recreational player that turns into a regular player has to be excluded. God forbid we have anybody plays more than a few hrs once a week.) said sight would be left crippled. it would be completely dead

so you can not in any perfect world have the situation. even if you did it would get you absolutely nowhere.

the only solution is to cater to both and figure out how to maximize the amount of revenue. that cannot happen by snuffing out either party. which basically makes this thread kinda lame.


OP confirmed mad he couldn't make this thread without resistance. No matter how many attempts he made to word things in his favor and bash opposition.

Hey now, I resemble that remark.

Honestly what's keeping me from playing post BF isn't the use of HUDs, the multi-tabling, or the fact that I might get eaten by a REG. It's that the environment is unregulated and it's hard to get money on.

The discussion was about multi-tabling, not HUDS, and w/e works to speed up the game is good for me and I'm the type of player you want.

Tx a lot for the mental image.

My mistake - I didn't think anyone had gone to that ridiculous an extreme.

There can be both a lack of recreational players and a rake issue - the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Question: if I sit in with $100, play for three hours and walk away with $150, have I beaten the game?

Another question: so a game with you heads up against Phil Ivey would only be unbeatable if rake were taken?

So BF and cutting US players out of the market has nothing to do with it? It's just about the rake?

HUDs aren't the problem. Multi-tabling is.

(But HUDs need to go anyway.)

can you explain how multi-tabling is a problem?

the more you play the closer you get to your long term win rate... you know... SKILL not LUCK

i find it ridiculous that people are preoccupied by how many tables others are playing, it's none of your business

You bring up an important question: what is the ratio of RECs to REGs? And, which class of player will do more to build up a site?

Nothing extreme about wanting a room free of multi-tabling -- if you want to play poker.

How many times must it be stated? It slows down the game!

(And it ain't poker, IMO.)

you mean because people take longer to react?

you want to limit players to only playing 1 table because you can't wait for people to act?

reasonable list of what recreational players want (although i think segregating player pool is inherently unfair), but it's just not smart business for pokerstars to make these changes, particularly the multitabling, HUD, and HH part is not going to happen anytime soon.

hopefully one day there's more competition in the online poker world, with sites that cater more towards recreational players, and others that try and do what pokerstars does, so that rake is lowered (my personal issue with the site, at the moment).

also, you should consider that if a site only allows one-tabling, it might not achieve a critical mass that allows it to have a good product. there's a reason online poker software other than stars sucks balls.

It's more like I don't want to wait while people time out.

(Honestly, in my own case I don't like multi-tabling because it ain't real poker -- and I don't like to wait. But, mainly, I don't like to wait. And it irritates me when I have to wait. I don't even like to wait at the post office. Sometimes I wait at Walmart's checkout line and it bugs me. I don't like to wait at the dentist's office -- really don't like that.)

How would REGS and RECS feel about the following:

1- 3rd party HUDS are banned, however the site has one preinstalled "HUD" for everyone. Nice big and easy to read. Easy to navigate with tabs and drop downs, like baseball stats on the TV. In addition to all the relevant playing stats and tendencies (pre,flop,river, turn, aggression). There is a nice easy to view tutorial on it as well. In addition, you get detailed player info for everyone at your table- hands per day,week,month,total winning,BB/100experience etc. Skill level determinant at each stakes level is known-beginner,novice, moderate,experienced, and pro.

2- At the lobby you can choose to sit with players at or above your skill level. Its your choice. You can NOT sit with players below your level.

Thoughts???

What is the rake at pokerstars right now?

you could say that they should simply reduce the time bank or the normal time you have to act, instead you suggest something that would kill most player's careers to solve this "problem"

poker is a game of skill

being a winning player isn't a crime, winning players are not pests that have to be eliminated, everyone's goal is to be a winning player or "die trying", some care more about the result (money), others care more about the process (playing the game)



a very simple solution for datamining is to not allow people to rail tables, if you're not playing you can't see it, with some exceptions to let people rail their favorite games but prevent large scale data mining

as for auto-sit software, people can be banned or suspended for that when they are caught doing it, it's possible

HUDs being banned is idiotic, it's not just the fact that a few people who are programmers could just make better undetectable ones, it's something absurd, it's like telling me not to use a calculator

it irritates you? do you have any ****ing clue how it would affect so many people?

you want online poker to drastically change (and me to starve, would do me good im fat) because something irritates you? who the **** are you?

it depends what stake you're playing, but its substantial (2pt+ for most stakes), and has gone up (for me) since 2011. i think i made something like 120k in rakeback in 2.5m hands in 09 and 30k in rakeback in 1m hands in 12, and played higher stakes in 12.

Would this rule bring more players to the site or fewer?

I'd just like to see it be easier for newcomers to put money/withdraw money from the sites. My bank wouldn't let me use my credit card to put money on, so I had to buy Vanilla Mastercards in the beginning. If I was a 45 year-old dude looking to put a few hundred on and got a message saying I couldn't use my credit card, I'd probably just give up and find something else to do. It's also kind of a pain in the ass to set up a skrill moneybookers or insta-debit account if you're not computer savvy.

I am smarter than you for one thing. But aside from that:

Allow me to correct a false impression I may have conveyed. My idea is not to overhaul all of online "poker" with new rules as much as it is for a site, or some sites, to set up rooms where players can go and play poker that resembles -- as much as possible -- live casino poker. Then let the market decide what the players want. Whichever flavor of the online game attracts the largest herd is likely the winner.