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New Online Gambling Law in Germany New Online Gambling Law in Germany

10-15-2020 , 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiranov
I was playing on Natural8 from Germany (I live here), but I have no German bank account to use for a cashout. I guess I can just **** myself then?
I can still withdraw with cryptocurrency???

I am on GGpoker though
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10-15-2020 , 11:23 AM
https://www.isa-guide.de/isa-law/articles/209875.html about glüstv (german) all should read
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10-15-2020 , 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbegott
https://www.isa-guide.de/isa-law/articles/209875.html about glüstv (german) all should read
u got any cliffs for us?
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10-15-2020 , 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by any four cards
i read somewhere that there is just a pop up reminder every 60 min, so you dont let time fly by while gambling away your whole existence. i might have read that one site has or will implement it in their DE client but cant really remember, so much noise out there right now.
thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by derbegott
https://www.isa-guide.de/isa-law/articles/209875.html about glüstv (german) all should read
there was another article* posted ITT, similar notion. so it seems someone could definitely make a case. this might even not necessary. b/c EU will criticize it anyway.

there're already rumours about potential lawsuits (no, i don't mean the other thread here)

* https://www.isa-guide.de/isa-law/articles/210553.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by shorshi
u got any cliffs for us?
new treaty violates EU law ... the other treaties/laws were ignored, b/c operators basically just said "i've got this shiny EU licence, so yeah, good job mate"

Quote:
Originally Posted by any four cards
in the german tagesschau they mentioned that the agency in charge of monitoring these regulations will be established 2023. ...

not sure if you read this gem: https://www.tagesschau.de/investigat...spiel-113.html

Quote:
Kontrolle der Regeln nicht geklärt

Unklar ist noch, wie die Einhaltung der neuen Regeln kontrolliert werden soll und wie die Länder dabei vorgehen. Eine Sprecherin der Bremer Innenbehörde teilte dazu mit: "Eine Abstimmung zwischen den Ländern ist bisher nicht erfolgt. Ein Austausch soll aber im Rahmen der bestehenden Gremien erfolgen."
they don't even know, who will controll the 15th october stuff

Quote:
Einige Behörden-Mitarbeiter machen sich nach Informationen von NDR und SZ offenbar Sorgen, dass sie sich gegebenenfalls der Strafvereitelung im Amt schuldig machen könnten, wenn sie Online-Casinos ohne Lizenz nicht mehr verfolgen. Schließlich tritt der neue Glücksspielstaatsvertrag frühestens im kommenden Sommer in Kraft, bis dahin bleiben die Angebote illegal.
not really relevant, but i had a good laugh thinking about those bureaucrats, that believe they made a difference so far [i know i'm chidlish, but it was a long day and we deserve it]

Last edited by NerdSuperfly; 10-15-2020 at 11:42 AM.
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10-15-2020 , 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocacola2
I can still withdraw with cryptocurrency???

I am on GGpoker though
I will know when they check my documents, I've been asked to submit them again and I can't login until they check them.

The mail we received from Natural8 clearly says bank transfer will be the only available option for deposits and cashouts.
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10-15-2020 , 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorshi
u got any cliffs for us?
"§ 22c Abs. 1 GlüStV" is likely violating EU law.
§ 22c Abs. 1 GlüStV is about certain casino games (Roulette, Baccarat...) and has
nothing to do with slots or poker.

Each "Bundesland" can decide to host Roulette, Baccarat and so on using an own platform, using a joint venture with a private company or they can give out licences, which are restricted to the amount of "Spielbanklizenzen" in the particular "Bundesland". They can also decide to not allow these games at all.

If § 22c Abs. 1 GlüStV is violating EU law, the whole treaty is void, because according to the author there is no legitimate reason to split the market in
slots, sports betting, poker and online-casino. The whole GlüStV is based on this
classification of the various games.

One of the arguments of the author is that Schleswig-Holstein didn´t have this arbitrary classification of games and everything is working fine there. This implies that the stated goals of the treaty are only pretextual and the real goal is to allow certain players an entry into the online gambling market and simultaneously increase the profits of the "Spielbanken".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiranov
I will know when they check my documents, I've been asked to submit them again and I can't login until they check them.

The mail we received from Natural8 clearly says bank transfer will be the only available option for deposits and cashouts.
Can anyone check if anything in the GGPoker cashier has changed for German players?
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10-15-2020 , 02:06 PM
does average German player skew toward fish or shark?
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10-15-2020 , 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hood
I see the partypoker DE client is out and there's some interesting removals here - Spins, ...
i can reg spins
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10-16-2020 , 07:27 AM
....
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10-16-2020 , 07:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zivermiver
No its just legal to play in SH online. In the other states it was technically illigal, but no one enforces the law. Its not like in the US. You play always with the whole world in germany.

Prior to this you are only to gamble in privat for pennys and only in state casinos except SH where it was allowed to gamble online.

Now we can gamble everywhere in germany tax free legal!
This is the best. Where in the world except in Germany can you play tax free legal?
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10-16-2020 , 07:54 AM
It's not necessarily tax free so I'd take that statement with a grain of salt. If you manage to make money for years playing poker while not having any other income, the chances of not being taxed decrease dramatically.
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10-16-2020 , 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wegg
It's not necessarily tax free so I'd take that statement with a grain of salt. If you manage to make money for years playing poker while not having any other income, the chances of not being taxed decrease dramatically.
You mean “increase”, right?

FWIW, taxation is a totally different issue. Unless there’s a stipulation that gambling winnings can’t be considered “Einkünfte aus Gewerbebetrieb”, there’s absolutely no guarantee that professional players don’t have to pay taxes in their poker winnings.

Legality isn’t a relevant factor in determining if something is taxable income in Germany.
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10-16-2020 , 08:38 AM
I wrote that the chances of *not* being taxed decrease dramatically. So, conversely the chances of being taxed increase dramatically.

While I agree with you that there is some seperation between the issues of whether or not poker income is taxable, the GlüStV still violates the premise of proportionality. It seems a bit odd that for tax laws, you playing poker can be defined as a game of skill and hence be taxed while on the other the GlüStV will not make such a distinction. But yes, legality is not necessary for taxation.
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10-16-2020 , 08:46 AM
My bad, I missed that *not*. My bad, sorry.

Other than that I agree with you but don’t see the taxation topic necessarily being handled differently in the future. With the new tracking systems in place, it should be fairly easy to determine long time winners and act accordingly.
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10-16-2020 , 11:08 AM
Find it interesting that xflixx is only streaming coaching since yesterday. Is he unsure if he still can stream poker? He had to delete everything that could be seen as advertisement for poker.
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10-16-2020 , 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jion_Wansu
This is the best. Where in the world except in Germany can you play tax free legal?
Regulated and tax-free since 2011 here in Estonia
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10-16-2020 , 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ment52
Regulated and tax-free since 2011 here in Estonia
how would you sell me the idea of moving there? <3
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10-16-2020 , 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jion_Wansu
This is the best. Where in the world except in Germany can you play tax free legal?
Finland, Sweden & UK for example.
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10-16-2020 , 01:42 PM
NL as well as far as I know ...
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10-16-2020 , 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatanaSoul
Wow. **** that.

People probably thought I was overreacting yelling at that British dude a few weeks ago who wanted to impose some rule along these lines (his version was % of income or net worth or something like that).

But look here, nanny state swooping in to snatch people's individual rights and freedoms away, right here, as we speak.

Fight for your freedoms, people, or the government will take them away at any and every opportunity that presents itself. And one thing is for damned sure: they won't stop at poker...
Lol - are you american by any chance? It just sounds like the sort of post that an American would make.

But in response to your points... It makes me laugh . There are countries on earth that you would have your right arm chopped off for gambling. And your complaining about a govt. putting in restrictions to stop people bankrupting themselves and about your "rights" LOL
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10-16-2020 , 06:27 PM
These restrictions are not about stopping people bankrupting themselves.
The state just wants people to bankrupt within their gambling monopoly.

It hurts to see that people dont realise that laws like this ARE in fact taking away our freedom and our rights. How can anyone defend it?
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10-16-2020 , 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by evcrusher
These restrictions are not about stopping people bankrupting themselves.
The state just wants people to bankrupt within their gambling monopoly.

It hurts to see that people dont realise that laws like this ARE in fact taking away our freedom and our rights. How can anyone defend it?
If that was the case, why would they let them play vs the world wide player pool then?

Surely a segregated German market would be correct. Then once youve lost all your money (to another German) they too will eventually lose it to a German
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10-16-2020 , 07:35 PM
It's super stupid to argue that because we have relative freedom to oppressive states, we could should be OK with less freedom. It also doesn't mean that because freedom is one of the main principles of our societal bond in Germany that there won't be any limitations and regulations. It is absolutely reasonable however to argue that the state should not be able to limit how much money we use to gamble, especially not when it operates a high-margin lottery as well as casinos where we essentially are bound to almost no limits. The distinction between online and offline gambling as well as the 1k limit or the limitation to four tables is entirely arbitrary and not bound to no scientific basis that it will to canalisation of gambling habits into legal spheres to an acceptable degrees and neither to the lessening of gambling addictions among the populace.
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10-17-2020 , 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by super_dave31
Lol - are you american by any chance? It just sounds like the sort of post that an American would make.

But in response to your points... It makes me laugh . There are countries on earth that you would have your right arm chopped off for gambling. And your complaining about a govt. putting in restrictions to stop people bankrupting themselves and about your "rights" LOL
Laugh all you want but please stop posting thank you
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10-17-2020 , 10:51 AM
This panic button on GG is annoying. Every few minutes it pops up over your table. Better not overlapp the tables or you accidently push it. Almost didnt caught the other window on the lobby which reminded me that I already played for 1hr and had to confirm I want to continue.
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