Run it once now pulled out of German market for maybe two months? Please list further sites on here if they pull out of the market or what their plan is.

betfair is out

Yep, got that message as well. I've tried to read as much as possible about the situation, but several things are unclear for now. RIO will introduce a the 1k deposit limit and 4 tables max for German players. That itself isn't that big of a tragedy to cash game players, however it seems that these regulations are just the first step to much more regulation in 2021, where everyone will be registered in a database in order for your limits to be tracked. So basically, every poker client will have to set up an account with the state authority on your behalf and everytime you want to deposit money, a check will be performed to check whether or not you still are within your limits. It's batshit insane and such an overreach from the government to regulate how much of your money you want to gamble. I'm absolutely tilted right now.

Some other things they'd like to introduce are "panic buttons" that will restrict you from playing for 24h (hello, misclick). Also, every time you click the button, this will be recorded by state authority. Transfer between accounts obviously will be restricted as well and some other stuff that reads like some sci fi dystopian **** written by some ****ing Herman the German.

Personally, I'll be looking into playing sites that are not regulated in Germany or generally finding any other solution that lets me play like I'm used to. Because seriously, **** this ****.

I'm desperately trying to find some upsides on this whole thing, the only real salvation seems to be that we'll have some absolute donk sites from German providers, but the again, this ****ing 1k limit will still be unbearable. Maybe there's a silver lining I'm not seeing yet and there might be a chance that a good percentage of the absolute ******ed slot degens will move some of their funds to poker, but for now, everything sounds absolutely horrible. What's also ****ing ironic is that these ****s want me to pay taxes because "iT's A gAmE oF sKiLl" but whenever it suits them, the legislation will make poker a game of luck and subject to ****ing regulation. They want the cake and eat it too. **** this absolute **** of a country.

the database already exists for live play in every casino in Germany. If you want to exclude yourself, you can. It’s not very surprising that they demand that this will be possible with online games too.

if you want something positive out of it maybe see the pros of regulation and german licenses: confiscating money from accounts without proper explanation will be a lot harder for sites (looking at a certain operator now...). Fees and insurance schemes need to be more transparent. Account balances should be safer now. Tax and withdrawals should be easier now. You are not a criminal anymore playing poker. Maybe we can even sue sites for racketeering lol

and a lot of these regulations are more aimed at the casino games. I don’t know what your sources are if you’re saying ‚there will be even more regulations coming‘, because the regulatory statements actually say that these rulings (deposit limits etc) could later be softened.

We can collect all the new stuff here?

888 announced .de client with separate pool. Yikes

Right now this is what the situation looks like:
1) Rio has retired from German market
2) Party poker will launch a .de client with European pool but without leatherboard and promotion (big yikes)
3) PokerStars.es has retired from German market
4) most ipoker skins will retire from German market too, and a couple will make a . De Client with separate pool.
5) winamax, gg and pokerstars.com has not informed us yet.

I'm very curious how the big ones will handle this.

Dunkel Zeiten kommen auf uns zu, Freunde.



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partypoker will continue rakeback but no leaderboards or other promos. this is tough.

GG said they will continue with usual business and wont even make changes after summer 2021. thats bold.

1) Rio announced de client in 1-2 month eta
2) Party poker info should be right, but they told me in live chat that leaderboards will be available. we will see.

If they keep rakeback and you can play 4 tables fastforward, this is not a bad option for cash players.

But overall i agree, situation sucks for us.

I just ask in party poker support live chat again, and they think that leaderboards will be available.

@any four cards @Twentythrees

where did you get that info about Party, im just curious.

sorry what? never heard of that... I have only played in 1 casino in germany and they surely didnt track anything.
How does this tracking look like?

From a German poker forum.

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can't imagine that winamax would handle DE-players for the PT/ES/FR pool. not even sure if this is legal, but even if so, it's prolly not worth the effort.

didn't read anything about ipoker, but only took a quick look at the PS-forum* (i guess that's were you got the pp mail) ...

still wondering about the separate pool thing (888, ipoker) ... it's not mentioned in the "Umlaufbeschluss" nor the "Gemeinsame Leitlinien". i didn't see the new bill, but never heard of any fenced pools. my best guess (if the separation on those platform is true and not a bad miscommunication within the company) is, that the Euroe-Rule ("Die Beträge sind in Euro und Cent auszuweisen") might be an issue.

* imo there's a lot of misinformation/understanding on strategy atm ... e.g. the "5 seconds" rule that's clearly a rule listed in the casino games section or the €1.000 max betting limit which is another rule for sportbetting (not even sure if this the new law [JUL 2021] or the current [Jan 2020] tbh)

Ty for sharing. I couldn't read the whole article cause I'm not a subscriber, but I founded the tweets very good.
I really hope Stars maintains an euro pool, or I think I will just move on to party. 888.de with only German pool is like drawing dead from begin. I don't mind 4 table max (this will kill mtt and sng grinders) and blind seats, but it put you ad disadvantage if the rest of the pool is able to table select and you aren't. We will see.


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Yeah PSforum is where I got the Infos.
888 statment right now is de client and de only pool.
I really hope that the 5 second thing is for casino games only and not poker, or I think that zoom and FF will not be avaible anymore. Time will tell.
Sure is that mtts and sng grinder are gone.
Will rake stay the same? Pokerstars. It and. Es charge higher rake than. Com for example.

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Nick is right, expect the All-In insurance is a game against the bank.

so like the P2P transfers (that not only can circumvent the 1k limit, but also the "kreditverbot" [no credits allowed]) this is most likely a thing of the past (both topics were mentioned in the pokerfirma article)



one of the most important points Nick mentioned is:

"This will go all live July 2021

(if nothing goes wrong)"


so far i was under the assumption that the states will all sign AND the EU is happy with the law. the latter might be an issue.

https://www.isa-guide.de/isa-law/articles/210553.html (latest opinion about the new law)


so GGP ignoring the whole thing might not be bold (regarding issues with licences in the UK), but even smart

i've read the 888 email and i noticed bad wording, i also know 888poker isn't the best in organising things so there's a chance this is really a miscommunication ... but still it's concerning.

the "5 second rule" is definitely a thing for the casino games. liife posted the links to the Docs (CTRL + F "hessen")

4 table rule seem to be global and not per domain (a domain is basically one operator), but i don't see any chance the state can enforce this. at least not right away.


no idea about the rake, but IF the DE-client is connected to the COM/EU pool, i can't see why a DE player pays more. of course they can cut promos, but not sure.



it all seems quite messy, not surprising given the short notice

You can't cut promos if the aren't any promos already (yeah ps, I'm talking about you).
I hope PS tell us something soon, this thing is driving me nuts.
Maybe it's time to join the apps private games?

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i'm too tired atm, but another thing i wouldn't sure about are Spins (or similar games at other platforms) and grand tour. both have randomized prizes involved. while players don't play against a banker, the house is involved.

anyway, just a late afternoon thought. unless the all-in insurance, which is imo clearly a game vs the house, this isn't as clear

this is so f**** up

what makes me so angry about all this: it is not usefull in any way. its not for any 'secure reasons' for addicted gamblers.
Slots are evil and they have to regulate them, ofc - but the rules for poker: complete bullsh.
why can't we do 1 thing right and not overregulate every sh***.
who are the persons who did this?

People that think that State governments are necessary suffer from Stockholm syndrome and are ****ing everyone's else life.

it was also confirmed in the official party discord. i dont expect leaderboards for germans from thursday on. without LBs i think its hard to grind these pools now with profit.

now its germany, sweden, denmark and soon poland that allow a shared pool but no promotions on gambling products including poker. read something about UK too so its going to be really hard for sites to offer competetive net rake for players without these LB/promo schemes. maybe thats a chance for these pools to get better rakeback or reduced rake %...i'm so naive.

on the brighter side, i read that these licences are going to be unlimited so there might be some new poker rooms popping up next year. when schleswig-holstein legalized online slots, there were dozens of new sites.

How so? There's a database that allows for ban checks and self-restriction checks but certainly not for a loss limit. You can lose as much as you have and please and they won't give a ****. So why introduce it to online poker? I'm not a lawyer but that just doesn't seem right to arbitrarily impose a restriction on a citizen where he's allowed to lose a certain amount online while not restricting how much he can lose in a casino.

I mean once again, one silver lining will be that there'll be sites popping up by slot machine operators. The devil himself, Gauselmann, will surely be one of the first to launch a german only site with the absolute finest selection of gamblers. I'm a bit more worried about the intermediate effects this whole fiasco has. Like, I don't know if I'll be able to play on stars up until July, because they haven't said ****-all and there's a good chance that they'll comply with regulations. No one can tell right now how the games will be in the meantime.

I do stand corrected however that they are only few rules regarding online poker and generally the least amount of restrictions. It will be interesting how the implementation will work, but the wording of it doesn't make it sound too plausible that we'll have the same experience but limited to 4 tables + 1k depo limit/month. I figure it will require a bunch of changes to suit regulations, nonetheless it will be interesting to see.

thats what i said


and as far as i know, they do care if someone is degening too hard. or they have to and they should, i think most casinos will do care. its like at a bar where you can get pretty drunk, but the bartender is sopposed to stop serving you when too wasted.

who in this thread is actually playing in germany and paying taxes here? I am and I feel like the new regulations threaten the ability of professionals to make money online and work as a successful "company" as they are declared by the tax agencies here.

To me the regulations seem to contradict the tax agencies stance on taxability of poker players.
I dont see how i can keep playing professionally online once all the laws come into passing. So i see only the options of moving outside the country (which is hard for me having family) or getting a lawyer that represents the professional poker community to fight these restrictions being applied to professionals.

I dont know how many professionals are left here in germany, that are playing taxes as well, but I would like to connect with all of them and see how they go about this or if we can do something together.

Any germany based professional poker player, feel free to send me a PM