Well, it they were only talking about that then it would probably fit on the shelf.

Now we go back to my original point. Mason seemed to respond by clarifying that his emphasis wasn't on the 300 hour sample (fair enough), yet you are clearly stating that 300 hours (10k hands) is sufficient.

In truth, 10k hands will yield very few [shown] 3 bet hands and it will not even be close to being meaningful enough to draw enough of a useful conclusion to write a book of value. I'd also argue that trying to define "what a tourist tends to *need* to 3 bet preflop" is not the correct approach to take. The same argument applies to calling a pot-sized bet on the river: Not enough of a sample, and not the right question to be asking. Say you did know "what a tourist needs" to call a pot-sized bet on the river (obviously we'd need to assume that all action up to that point was irrelevant, because there is no chance of formulating an answer in such a tiny sample size specific to various prior actions on streets), it would be necessary to know how this condition compares to, say, a 25% pot bet or an overbet. This much more useful information *can* be obtained with a strong degree of confidence with a *much* larger hand sample under your belt.

Wait, are the authors really saying they've only played 300 hours of live SSNL?
Haven't they both been playing casino poker for over 40 years?
I would think most of their potential readers have played way more than that.
When I was a more serious player, I would play about that much in a year. And I'm certainly not qualified to write a book about it.

I do think a book that could be useful in the current poker environment is one that focused on strategy adjustments for how live poker has changed over the past several years. Especially one that includes insights into playing some of the variants that are now popular, like multiple-straddles, bomb pots, stand-up game, 7-2 game, etc. And also discussion about how games differ across different regions of the county.

I’m kind of sure Mason meant he logged in around 300 hours at 1/3 nlhe as a lead up to or while writing the book on 1/3. And that him and David have both played a lot more hands than that.

They just needed to get a good sense on how the games are currently playing. It’s enough imo.

My use of only in that particular context doesn’t mean that would be the only thing in the book.

Thanks to 300 hours worth of experience of reading 2+2 posts, I was able to deduce that, and instinctively respond with a funny comment.

Ah I give it a C+

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I think David and Mason have both mostly played limit poker for most of their poker lives, but they have played a good amount of NL as well as having cowritten previous books covering NL poker. I have played with both of them in 20/40 LHE games in the past.

Wait until I get to 3,000 hours and see how much wittier I am then.

The rake/tipping at this level is brutal. Lets at least acknowledge that.

Game selection is key. Can you get in 40 quality hours a week?
In Vegas, maybe but other areas not so much.

What do you think the win rate is in these games?

IMHO the problem is that 10-15 years ago when min wage was $7 an hour playing 1-2 looked a decent option for some.
Now that min wages are often $15+ most areas, most people would be better off at a job with vacation and health benefits.

Also if you are good enough to crush 1-2, you almost certainly should be playing higher or doing something else with your skill set.

D.

Beating Small Stakes live No-Limit Hold ’em Games is like taking candy from a baby.

You just have to avoid getting stabbed on your way home.

I agree the rake is too high but the Las Vegas $1-$3 game is still highly beatable. As for tipping, it's much less than in a limit game since it's only that occasional big pot that comes your way. But these big pots make all the difference in your results.

As for playing in games a little bigger, this may not be the case since the quality of opponent, on average, goes up a lot.

Mason

I disagree. I’ve played $1/$2 or $1/$3 as well as $2/$5 in many card rooms in both the Midwest as well as Vegas. Games are practically identical. You may have one extra thinking player at a $2-5 table, but that’s about it.

The book is designed for games up through $2-$5 live. When I say a little bigger, I'm referring to games larger than $2-$5.

Mason

I see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuDEYfc7nac This Upswing video on multiway pots is not like some of their real solver derived material. Solvers are pretty useless in multiway pots with fish. I thought the discussion of what hands to play in multiway pots was interesting. Not just to play small pps and not marginal high card hands. Also, suited aces go up in value, particularly deep, and suited connectors/gappers down in value. The reason is multiway, you hit flush over flush a lot.

I look forward to reading this. All the 2+2 books on limit games are really good and well organized.

Probably not good enough to judge the quality of poker books, but for me the best I have read is still Small Stakes Hold'em by Ed Miller, David Sklansky, and Mason Malmuth. It is about limit and I play no limit now, but it was still a great book.

Check out Ed Miller's "The Course" if you haven't already; brings that same real-world feel and tactics to small-stakes (1/2, 2/5 and a bit on 5/10) no limit.

I have read most of Miller's books, including The Course.

Right. That book is getting pretty old but its not like 1/2 and 2/5 has changed all that much since the book originally came out.

I've read tons of poker books including Mason and Sklanskys and I always get something out of them. However Ed Miller's are still the gold standard on low stakes cash holdem imo. The Course is still a fantastic book, and the chapter on Bayesian Inference in Playing the Player is still the best thing I've ever read on poker.

What's he up to these days?

Co-founded a company that made live lines for major American sports & was able to get some of the biggest and/or most respected sportsbooks in the world as clients. Then sold the company to a big company. I will assume he no longer needs money.

I think he's also still affiliated with the Red Chip Poker training site. At least when I went through the Core course a few years back, he had quite a bit of content on there.

appreciate these comments

i didn't understand one sentence though.

in multi-way,

small PPs are very good?

2 high cards (unsuited?) are not so good?

you mentioned flush over flush and i agree

.. no one seems to fear set over set although i remember Ciaffone mentioned it in book. i think it would be different if all 5 shared cards were dealt at once. and it's huge in omaha, but i digress

depressing on grinding B&M vs new minimum wage. although i guess you have alternative now

very broad question,

if you were the best cash game player in the world, how much could you expect make in 40 hour work week in LA or LV?.. i.e. availability of high $$$ games? AND softness of those games?

and assume you are willing to move around city AND don't include transit time in your 40 hour work week. also, say that you will,only do 4_hour minimum games

can you make $500k per year?... i guess there may be a,few ultra-high-end tables in both cities... but i was thinking more like $100 big blind type game

The best player in the world is clearing 500k very easily, it's not close.

The gap between Linus Love and some live pro is massive. Like 10-15bb/100 massive.