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Old 06-26-2010, 04:37 AM   #251
Ribbo
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilneedheart View Post
Not quite.
Yes quite. I suggest you learn about what a placebo is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo

It has absolutely nothing to do with chopping bricks in half

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibluffoldladies View Post
I don't buy it. If they were really using Daniel's image to sell their product without him knowing then he would have been more outraged in his first post. This is just damage control.
For what it's worth I believe Daniel entirely. I have no reason to believe otherwise since everything he has posted is believable. It's fine to be sceptical in life, but don't automatically be confrontational.
When I wrote the headline of this thread, it was because I thought both Daniel and Doyle were the victim of con artists. As the thread has developed to me it's clear Daniel still is the victim, but Doyle might be involved more somehow...
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Old 06-26-2010, 04:58 AM   #252
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

Doyle would promote viagra if someone asked him too. He'd probably even do it for so cheap so long as it covered buying a new hat.
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Old 06-26-2010, 04:58 AM   #253
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I acknowledge everything you're saying about the placebo effect, but the fact remains that this is a sham product. They give completely bs pseudo-science explanations for the product on their website and in doing so they market it as something it's not.
Jesus...if it didn't cost money and if it didn't involve "space" tech it wouldn't work,DUCY? Come back when you figure that out.
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Old 06-26-2010, 05:50 AM   #254
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

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Jesus...if it didn't cost money and if it didn't involve "space" tech it wouldn't work,DUCY? Come back when you figure that out.
I don't care that Endura has come up with an effective method to scam people out of money. The fact remains that they are scamming people. Come back when you figure that out.
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Old 06-26-2010, 05:58 AM   #255
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

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Originally Posted by Ribbo View Post
Yes quite. I suggest you learn about what a placebo is.
I know what a placebo is. I first studied the placebo effect in 1985, you clown. This is not an instance of one. It is very similar though. Which is why people of lesser intelligence than me (such as you) would not understand it.
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Old 06-26-2010, 06:08 AM   #256
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

He's balancing his endorsement range with some scams
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Old 06-26-2010, 06:23 AM   #257
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

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Originally Posted by Daniel Negreanu View Post
I did NOT write that testimonial nor did I ever agree to let them write one for me. I do NOT have anything at all to do with them in any way, shape, or form. I am not an endorser, or an owner of anything related to this thing. I've just informed my agent about it and my testimonial will be coming down soon I hope.

Stuff like this happens to me often. Random websites will attach my name to something and claim I endorse their products. When I spot them, I get my agent to contact them and have them pull the endorsement.

I'm not lying about anything at all. They asked me to "try it out" at Bellagio and put a mic on me. I tried them, and they seemed to work. That is literally the extent of my involvement with any of this crap.

Did you guys actually READ the testimonial? Does that sound like something I'd say? All of a sudden I'm Mr.MultiTabler? LOL, sheesh!
I'm glad to hear that, Daniel, and I'm also not surprised. Any company/individuals so utterly devoid of scruples that they'd sell this snake oil to begin with certainly will have no problem forging endorsements, either.

Frankly, given the damage done to your reputation by a false testimonial for a scam like this product, I wouldn't be surprised if you have a legal case against them.

Certainly they are profiting by using your name (and probably Doyle's, and others). Scam artists like this disgust me.

The Amazing Randi, and the skeptics on his forum would have a field day with these monkeys.

http://forums.randi.org/
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Old 06-26-2010, 06:34 AM   #258
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

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Originally Posted by Ribbo View Post
So when Doyle tweets:

Had great endurance at the poker table & was pain free. Go look at Endurapokerstrips.com this really works. Unbelievable!!

you think we should believe Endura hacked into his twitter account, wrote that then let him have it back?

lol, don't be gullible.
http://twitter.com/TexDolly (10 tweets down)
There are two options here:

1) Doyle actually believes these things work (for whatever reason, placebo, etc.)

2) Doyle doesn't think these things work, and is benefitting somehow from the endorsement

I'm not sure which is worse. I guess I'd rather believe that Doyle is benefitting from this somehow than that he's drunk this koolaid, and is a sucker.
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Old 06-26-2010, 06:44 AM   #259
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

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Originally Posted by JimmyLegs View Post
Certainly more research needs to be done, but the tentative conclusion is that dopamine increases our pattern-spotting tendencies which in turn means we start seeing patterns where there are none resulting in an irrational belief in superstition, God, an interconnectedness with the universe, the Virgin Mary on a grilled cheese sandwich, etc.
Anyone who lived through the psychedelic-consuming sixties has gotta be wondering about the impact LSD has on the dopamine system about now.

Also: I am intrigued by JimmyLegs's ideas, and would like to know where I can subscribe to this BrainFail newsletter?

Also also: that YouTube video is no longer available, and Daniel's testimony doesn't appear visible on their website any longer. Presumably he has taken steps to protect his image?
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Old 06-26-2010, 06:50 AM   #260
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

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Originally Posted by wilneedheart View Post
I know what a placebo is. I first studied the placebo effect in 1985, you clown. This is not an instance of one. It is very similar though. Which is why people of lesser intelligence than me (such as you) would not understand it.
Ad hominem arguments do not work here. You know nothing about me.
Come back when you have something to back up your ridiculous claim other than hyperbole.
Oh and by the way, a personal attack like yours is used a lot by people with no substance to their claims.
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Old 06-26-2010, 06:53 AM   #261
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

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Originally Posted by moki View Post
There are two options here:

1) Doyle actually believes these things work (for whatever reason, placebo, etc.)

2) Doyle doesn't think these things work, and is benefitting somehow from the endorsement

I'm not sure which is worse. I guess I'd rather believe that Doyle is benefitting from this somehow than that he's drunk this koolaid, and is a sucker.
You make solid points, but I will add...
I think it doesn't matter whether 1 or 2 is correct, the outcome is still the same for the thousands of people who follow him on twitter and that is some are going to be suckered in.
It's just plain deceitful what he is doing to claim it works when there is no empirical evidence to back that up, all he has is anecdotes which are meaningless.
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Old 06-26-2010, 07:02 AM   #262
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilneedheart View Post
I know what a placebo is. I first studied the placebo effect in 1985, you clown. This is not an instance of one. It is very similar though. Which is why people of lesser intelligence than me (such as you) would not understand it.
I love how you defend your position, by simply asserting your intelligence, without defining or elaborating your point of view.

I was tested with an IQ of 133 as a child... am I worthy to be in your presence? Or is two-standard deviations above average too common for you?
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Old 06-26-2010, 07:17 AM   #263
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

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Originally Posted by wilneedheart View Post
What evidence do you have of this assertion. If you have no evidence then this is a woo woo argument. So GTFO.
He offers his evidence in the post that you're quoting from. His evidence is that Doyle Brunson's personal endorsement of a product that is uncontrovertibly a scam insofar as it lacks any coherent mechanism of action and hasn't been subjected to the kind of double blind, randomized controlled testing that would be necessary to tell you if it actually does what it claims to do, suggests that he doesn't care whether people believe his reputation and integrity are for sale to the highest bidder.

So perhaps you're the one who needs to GTFO?
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Old 06-26-2010, 07:18 AM   #264
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Negreanu View Post
I did NOT write that testimonial nor did I ever agree to let them write one for me. I do NOT have anything at all to do with them in any way, shape, or form. I am not an endorser, or an owner of anything related to this thing. I've just informed my agent about it and my testimonial will be coming down soon I hope.

Stuff like this happens to me often. Random websites will attach my name to something and claim I endorse their products. When I spot them, I get my agent to contact them and have them pull the endorsement.

I'm not lying about anything at all. They asked me to "try it out" at Bellagio and put a mic on me. I tried them, and they seemed to work. That is literally the extent of my involvement with any of this crap.

Did you guys actually READ the testimonial? Does that sound like something I'd say? All of a sudden I'm Mr.MultiTabler? LOL, sheesh!


Well, I'm pleased as punch to hear you're not involved with this product, i have to say that. Doyle, on the other hand, has shouted it out on his twitter.
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Old 06-26-2010, 07:29 AM   #265
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

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Originally Posted by skraper View Post
I don't think someone posting a quote that you never said or authorized qualifies you as a sucker.


If DNs quote is a fabrication, I think that it is somewhat likely others will be as well.
You're absolutely right, DN was not a sucker, just someone who got taken advantage of. Given what an obvious scam the product was, I should have handicapped that they'd use his name and likeness without permission at a much high chance than I gave it. I was just rather infuriated and be bewildered that DN would endorse the product. I Apologize for assuming the worst and attacking Dn's intelligence and character. That was wrong, pure and simple. Remember kids, when you assume, you yadda yadda yadda.


However, I don't think you should be expecting Doyle and Dewey to take down their endorsements. Dewey reportedly has been raving about these strips all over town, and doyle said this in twitter a couple days ago..
Quote:
ad great endurance at the poker table & was pain free. Go look at Endurapokerstrips.com this really works. Unbelievable!! 7:36 PM Jun 24th via web

http://twitter.com/TEXDOLLY
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Old 06-26-2010, 08:59 AM   #266
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

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Originally Posted by thoth_hermes View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-agl0pOQfs

I suggest not drinking anything while watching.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGbdomlBnJM <-- Also good, although almost redundant considering what they're making fun of
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Old 06-26-2010, 09:46 AM   #267
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

If I was a known person and they'd come to video me, I'd just fake fall down when they barely touch me after I have the sticker.
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Old 06-26-2010, 11:02 AM   #268
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

you guys just don't get it. LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_akYr...eature=related
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Old 06-26-2010, 11:11 AM   #269
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

Why cant people give themselves credit for doing good, "withstanding pain" or whatever else a they want to put down to the "bracelet","strips" or whatever the f**k.. People are way to hard on themselves and people that believe this stuff, have well passed "denial" and are happy being in "acceptance"...
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Old 06-26-2010, 11:13 AM   #270
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

Didn't read all of thread to see if this was posted or not. If it was, it deserves to be watched again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg8MGIMw72s
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Old 06-26-2010, 12:31 PM   #271
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

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Originally Posted by Antster2 View Post
Why cant people give themselves credit for doing good, "withstanding pain" or whatever else a they want to put down to the "bracelet","strips" or whatever the f**k.. People are way to hard on themselves and people that believe this stuff, have well passed "denial" and are happy being in "acceptance"...
I think you're missing the reason why most people are upset by this. You're right - Doyle's a grown man and can do whatever the hell he wants, whether it be trusting in magical stickers or levitating peanut butter or pan-dimensional q-tips. But it crosses the line when it's marketed and sold to other people claiming to be based on legitimate science. Then it is fraud plain and simple.

Part of the strategy of pseudoscientific products such as this one is to foster a mistrust in ACTUAL science and medicine. They'll spout dangerous and unsubstantiated claims about how the medical community lies and deceives, and that your best option is to reject critical thinking and the scientific method and go on faith - typically faith in their bogus product. This is irresponsible and bordering on criminal because many people who could be legitimately helped by modern medicine will instead reject it out of fear and ignorance and put their trust (and health) in magic stickers.

Here's an example so you don't think I'M making random unsubstantiated claims. I used to go to a chiropractor who turned out to be a little... okay, a LOT too new agey for my tastes. Last flu season he handed out pamphlets and posted signs in his office discouraging clients from getting flu shots. They quoted discredited studies about the "dangers" of flu shots and used inflammatory language that painted all doctors and the medical community at large as a giant conspiracy of greedy corporations. Instead of flu shots, guess what they were recommending? A $30 bottle of homeopathic solution (chemically indistinguishable from tap water) available for purchase at the front desk. Many potentially deadly diseases that we had essentially eradicated are now on the rise again thanks to the growing mistrust in vaccines and doctors. And pseudoscience and magic sticker hucksters are largely to blame for throwing fuel on that fire.

These stickers are about more than just Doyle's choice to put his trust in a placebo. He's lending his likeness and reputation to people selling a fraudulent product masked in scientificky sounding buzzwords.
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Old 06-26-2010, 12:40 PM   #272
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

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Originally Posted by glimmertwin View Post
Also: I am intrigued by JimmyLegs's ideas, and would like to know where I can subscribe to this BrainFail newsletter?
I'm not sure what the forum policies are on plugging outside sites, but here goes anyway. I think it's highly relevant to this thread and my intention is not to spam, so hopefully I won't get Mod-hammered.

'Brain Fail' is a video series I'm producing for CardRunners. It fuses poker strategy, behavioral psychology, and a few funny photoshops thrown in for good measure. In it I'm examining cognitive biases - the shortcuts that the brain uses to make sense of the world. Most of the time these shortcuts help, but occasionally they lead us astray and cause us to behave irrationally, both at the felt and in our lives. Some examples are Loss Aversion, Confirmation Bias, and Superstition/Magical Thinking.

I actually did a whole episode on superstitions among gamblers and poker players, but will likely revisit the topic in light of this Endura thing.

And a quick disclaimer - I'm not a trained psychologist. I just read a lot about it and then try to synthesize the available research for the viewers.

[/PLUG]
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Old 06-26-2010, 12:44 PM   #273
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

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Originally Posted by glimmertwin View Post
He offers his evidence in the post that you're quoting from. His evidence is that Doyle Brunson's personal endorsement of a product that is uncontrovertibly a scam insofar as it lacks any coherent mechanism of action and hasn't been subjected to the kind of double blind, randomized controlled testing that would be necessary to tell you if it actually does what it claims to do, suggests that he doesn't care whether people believe his reputation and integrity are for sale to the highest bidder.

So perhaps you're the one who needs to GTFO?
there are many types of testing and the one you mentioned is only one of them. Sorry you didn't know that. Next time try and be logical. Philosophy is not a science. Google is your friend, lol.
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Old 06-26-2010, 12:46 PM   #274
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

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Originally Posted by JimmyLegs View Post
And a quick disclaimer - I'm not a trained psychologist. I just read a lot about it and then try to synthesize the available research for the viewers.
you can't synthesise what you don't understand properly. Which is the case with your horrendously inept video series.
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Old 06-26-2010, 01:13 PM   #275
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Re: Negreanu and Brunson fall for confidence tricksters.

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Originally Posted by wilneedheart View Post
you can't synthesise what you don't understand properly. Which is the case with your horrendously inept video series.
Everything I present is researched and referenced, and I have at all times welcomed and encouraged corrections and clarifications. You've not contributed once to the discussion there and offer nothing but personal attacks here.

But this is not an appropriate forum for this discussion - if you'd like to PM me on CR or offer some constructive criticisms in the comment sections, I'd be more than happy to respond.

Sorry to derail.
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