Too*

English isn't Privateworld's native language.

Theory:

The biggest NL games in Vegas right now even during primetime are what?....the $400/$800 at Aria that only ran for a few days? They normally play $300/$600 LIMIT mixed games

I have no evidence to back it up.....but I wold surmise these games are small compared to what runs in Macau on the regular.

Also....Durrr was never a tourney guy...a year or two ago....he basically regged the main then phoned it in...busted early in day one

I just get the impression he doesn't care about bracelets or glory or any of that happy horse****...he cares about amassing large sums of cash to do other stuff with.

Just a theory

My theory is that he is a degenerate gambler and all he wants to do is play poker.

It's sad that he has been playing games in Macau for the past 4-5 years and only just recently was his first trip to China's mainland. It is not like he came to the mainland to be a tourist, he went there to play poker.

Why? Because all he really cares about is poker, and doesn't seem to have much of a life besides that.

If that makes him happy, then whatever. People should do what makes them happy.

oh boy, PW shows up. this thread just got good. a few questions that maybe you can answer without giving away too much about tom's personal troubles.

- how did he manage to get so far in debt considering he is miles better at poker than any of the crazy asian businessmen that frequent the huge macau games?

- did any other players get destroyed as badly as he did in the games? (names would be nice but i dont expect that info to be public)

- is he legitimately "in trouble" or is he just staying in the country so he can play those games and grind his way out of debt?

- is he being staked by any american pros in the underground games hes playing there?

- any speculation on what might happen to him if he isnt ever able to recover from the debt hes in?

- whatever happened with him and jungle? (sorry if thats already known info)

im more on the side of the people who think hes in over his head. probably not being held hostage like some people think, but i really feel that the people who think hes ballin out of control and making millions over there are probably wrong. surely if he was OK he would at least make a trip to vegas for a week or two to play in some cash games and hang out with the other high stakes ballers during the WSOP. something just seems off with his lack of presence and lengthened silence.

lol five star thread coming

Are there any examples of prior well known pros that got deep in debt with the mafia or similar to Dwan speculated situation, what was the outcome??

(bad language)

I'm surprised no one has done this. (from what I saw)

Using the picture below, we can take a couple stabs at what stakes they are playing.

Blinds seem to be 50k/100k HKD with what looks like a 5k ante.
This would be 6.5k/13k US $650 ante

This seems accurate given the history and stories of Macau nosebleeds.
It's hard to see all the stacks but it doesn't look like they are playing super deep.

He's the only pro and holding largest stack you can see in the picture. Why would he go to Vegas?

My first question was going to be why does anybody give a ****...

But I can see that it really doesn't matter why but a ton of people do give a ****.

So my one question (and I am legitimately curious about this)
Is it really anyone's business?
Why does all this NEED to be made public

Because people have taken to this donk by watching all his televised games and are interested in what he is doing.

I can try to anser some of those questions to the best of my knowledge..
Tom is not necessarily better then crazy Asian businessman especially, when those crazy Asian businessmen have billions of dollars and can gamble sky high.

Tom was a overated player that actually over rated himself! Pr schemes and managers and creating publicity for yourself after you won in a few high stakes games during your first year can only cause more stress. Also, having entourages,renting yachts ,jets and villas for 300 of your friends and their friends can distract you and your ego. He was gambling what he was spending and spending what he was gambling. If that makes sense.

His luck just ran out with his skills behind it.

Is he in trouble in the USA? That depends on with who. The Government ? Well, they froze millions of a wire transfer in the Illya Trincher indictment. Which is a answer to the question who was staking him at one point after he went busto. He was suppose to go to court to explain it and try to claim it. To this day, that I know of he has never made a claim.
Im sure Trincher is not the friendliest to him right now.

No high stakes player would stake him in anything right now. They do not want to be involved with the people tom HAS to associate with now. He was getting killed in Bobbys room by Opie,gus,mosseri,Doyle and a few others. Not sure who he owes in Bobbys room or the high stakes world but, they are not welcoming him in or anything. When his name comes up they just look at each other with a weird silence.

I dont think he can ever repay the amount of a debt he has. I do have a figure but, if I wrote it it would not be believed and then I get many hater mail so, I wont say it.

Jungle? Well, he is the least scariest on Toms list right now to pay. Sucks for jungle but, jungle knew what he was going into. Jungle playing a victim is funny at this point.
Nothing looks good for Toms future now. Unless he gets plastic surgery and moves to a deserted island.

Dont want to see anything bad happen to the kid. Looked and sounded horrible last time I saw him.

Popcorn.gif

i find it hard to believe that durrrr is outclassed by the billionaire macau fish. however, i do find it plausible that if they bumped up the stakes high enough that they could erase his bankroll in a few sessions if they went on a heater. if toms bankroll is say, $10 million, and they play stakes so high than the stacks are in the $2-$3 million range, it wouldnt be difficult for one bad run to obliterate his roll. fish can go on heaters and win a few buyins in any game. i have never and will never play in a game that high but i would also be super worried about getting cheated. whos to say the businessmen arent related to or working with the owner of the casino, the poker room manager, dealers, etc? it would be so easy for them to rig decks, read his hand, etc. i know thats proooobably not what happened, but i wouldnt be shocked if they put together a sophisicated system to fleece him and other players. i probably shouldnt even say that because im much more paranoid than your average poker player, but playing sky high in foreign countries just worries me.

how does he let himself get beaten that badly by gus, doyle, abe, and opie?! unless its a mixed game, durrrr is a huge favorite against that lineup. doyle is over the hill and terrible at big bet games. we all know how bad gus is at NL. better at PLO for sure, but still a huge fish. down $20 million online? opie and abe are certainly competent opponents, but they are mixed game masters. especially abe. opie is good at NL but i think tom is much better than him. so, again, if durrr got destroyed in that game it must have been mixed games.

if he cant ever repay the amount he owes, why does he continue to play? is it part of an agreement that he HAS to play if he doesnt want to get dealt with physically? even if hes playing a game with average stacks of $100k-$200k, it would take him forever to get out of what would be considered a huge debt. does he owe $20 million? more? word is that andrew robl crushed the macau games for $25 million or more. so if thats true then i can see a player who gets crushed in that game losing near that amount.

thanks for any input PW. im posting on a new account but i followed and contributed to the old "tom dwan has bigger problems than simply jungle" thread. lots of interesting information in there. good to see you back. keep the posts coming.

Privateworld just upped the ante on this thread...

because they are all probably better than him in mixed games

Look again.

According to the chip values of your picture you will see:
SB = 2 yellow (2k)
BB = 4 yellow (4k)
UTG has limped with 5k blue chip (he will get 1k change if he folds to the raise after the action is closed)
Player in MP raised to 13k (2 blue and 3 yellow chips)
BTN: called 13k
SB is now first to act.

There are no antes.

So they are playing with blinds ~ sb 250 USD - bb 500 USD.

(There was already a similar reaction like this to Winnings' post, but it seems to be deleted??)

Not that this helps but if that's true privateworld i'm just gunna go ahead and say I feel bad for durrr. He's one of the godfathers of poker, and also seems like one of the true good guys in this history of poker. I wish him all the best

Have stated the stakes several times already in this thread...Also, have heard in the past he owes 20 million. This was from someone very reliable.

He is also friends with Billionaires over in China. So draw your own conclusions who is staking him.

habit, you are probably correct with the stakes you said (~$325/$650) but you said earlier there was a mandatory straddle. if you look at the pic you can easily tell UTG limped. if we assume the yellows are 1k and the blues are 5k, then they would be playing 2k/4k and UTG limped with a single 5k chip and needs 1k change. then CO raised to what looks like 14k, button called, action is on SB.

thread needs more privateworld

Privateworld has entered the building. Get your popcorn and your imagination.

skittles.gif

I'm drawing the conclusion that Chinese billionaires are staking him.

Haralabous Voulgaris like 4-5 days ago was tweeting if anyone had the number for the Tom Dwan debt collection company. Dwan is prob not coming back for a few reasons...

Genius mind itt confirmed

Link to tweet?
Looked for it but can't find it.